What's goin' down at Tocco's (video):

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Sinister, Feb 24, 2014.

  1. zapataxiv

    zapataxiv Brown Belt

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    so, i guess the question is does he really want it?
    boxing is a hard fucking sport to make it in from what i have seen. and gusting talented is not enough there is also the grind. Not to be one of those guys but are the old heads right when they say the new generation is by in large weaker willed than the previous one. This is a problem i have seen and experienced but the grind of being a combat sport athlete is what breaks most people i think.
     
  2. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Not wanting it and not thinking it's attainable are two different things. But asking a kid whose never had anything go right in his whole life to suddenly believe something will go right is asking a lot, they need time to really buy into that. I think he's coming to it, but maturity helps.

    If you think about it, even the way you responded could be problematic. Not that you mean it to be, but notice how I suggest the athlete needs to mature and the feedback tone is very matter-of-fact, either he wants it or he doesn't. The truth about fighters is much more complicated than that. Uncertainty plagues most people.
     
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  3. zapataxiv

    zapataxiv Brown Belt

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    wow that is a good insight into your students mind.
    is this uncertainty also why he left you for a little bit?

    for example you mentioned he was mad at you for not holding mitts with him, or not enough because he saw other guys getting more mitt time from their coaches. He eventually came to realization in the value of your coaching by having system prove itself and his hard work that he put into it.

    thats a great point. I remember that was one of the big takeaways i got from the time in vegas. Was the myriad of effects that pressure has mentally on somebody from that how much of a piece somebody mentality and emotional state has on their performance as a boxer.

    i know for me personally that uncertainty is real and it affected my life in a myriad of ways its effect in the ring is just a fraction of its effects.

    how do you try and overcome these weaknesses as a coach/teacher? not asking for a key to the bank but these almost seem like a job for a psychologist!
     
  4. Lucas Coradini

    Lucas Coradini Blue Belt Professional Fighter

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    Why Loco is called Loco? I mean, he seems very calm... too much I'd say lol I got nervous watching his rounds, like "c'mon, get him Jhonny!" everything he does seems very solid and methodical, but it also seems that he's on a constant effort to do things right, even his posture. So, what's the deal with him? Does he go full Loco from time to time? I never saw it.

    And the guy telling shit outside the ring was Flash? lol @Cyclone Mike got pissed

    I think I would, too. That was so annoying

    And lastly, did you told Daijon to stop going fast and hard with the guy at the end of round one?
     
  5. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    When I changed the way I train to be less individualistic, most of my high-level fighters had minor to severe mental breakdowns. This made me realize how much co-dependency exists in boxing gyms, and opened my eyes to how many trainers are aware of that on some level and exploit it (mitt men have created a whole industry based on it). If I wanted to truly be a "teacher" I needed to elevate beyond this, and make it not about ME, but teach them how to be self-reliant. However, it didn't go over well. They started to feel neglected, like I wasn't "pushing" them. But why did they need to be pushed? Essentially they got very upset that I wouldn't babysit them anymore, that they had to take on MORE responsibility, rather than getting even more attention. Daijon was no exception despite him being the closest to me, personally. Joseph had a full-on meltdown and is walking around right now convincing everyone that he has every right to act like a diva. But, in separation, Daijon is the one that actually saw the light. Now he's back, and he's still in a BIT of a rebellious phase, but he knows the value of what he has.

    To answer your last question, once upon a time trainers knew as much as nurses, psychologists, physical therapists, parents, etc. That's an exaggeration, of course, but the short answer is you have to do your homework. I do this by studying good coaches, and speaking to people in these fields to make sure I'm on the right track. Plenty of learning material about:







    Jonathan is called that because of how he smiles. He looks like a lunatic.

    Nah that wasn't J-Flash, that was a guy named Ronnie Cabili. Ronnie is an interesting character. But he actually provided a service. That's the kind of shit you hear from the audience at Pro fights, anyone who was effected by it is mentally vulnerable. I'm not sure if I remember telling him not to go fast and hard, perhaps too fast. Daijon has a bad habit of rushing due to nervous tension. So he doesn't measure distance or keep track of his feet.
     
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  6. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    This is another clip. I did a lot of looking up of Seabiscuit's trainer because race horses are trained a lot like fighters. But this was a special scenario because everything came together that shouldn't have. But jockey Red Pollard (who boxed on the side from time to time) just knew this horse's brain as well as the trainer did:



    Bit of weird information about that race, War Admiral was actually Seabiscuit's Uncle. Hard Tack was Seabiscuit's Father, War Admiral was Hard Tack's Brother. Imagine a Title fight between Uncle and Nephew and that's essentially what this was.
     
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  7. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    You know, now that I think about it Daijon and Seabiscuit are a lot alike. Daijon has natural talents, as you saw above Seabiscuit was very fast, just ran shitty. What messed him up? Upbringing + having a non-violent nature. Daijon also eats like a horse:

     
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  8. eternaldarkness

    eternaldarkness Brown Belt

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    interesting you compare the two. my father is a horse trainer and a lot that i have learned to apply to boxing training comes from him.
     
  9. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Animal trainers are my favorites because they can't use words. Seabiscuit's trainer was a trainer of War horses. But he was very light-handed compared to most trainers. Fighters tend to be raw and animalistic in the way race horses are, there's a certain meanness needed, but it has to be controlled. Horses that think too much are hesitant, same with fighters. Horses that don't think at all tend to run wild and injury happens, same with fighters. They need to be vicious and yet dignified. Same with fighters.
     
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  10. Sano

    Sano Black Belt

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    It can sound strange but there's of alot of psychology that applies to both humans and other animals. I grew up with pack dogs and learned how to approach anxious or aggressive dogs and I use a lot of the same tools in dealing with patients, and people in general. It's very subtle things like how you approach someone who is unsure of you as in giving personal space, not engaging in a staring contest, coming a little side on and using calm and relaxed breathing and body language. Be patient. At the other end of the spectrum, if you want to curb or push/motivate someone a little it's a more open posture, firm tonality, being decisive, unshakeable and confident. All these things I learned from working with dogs mostly and the majority is non-verbal.
     
  11. zapataxiv

    zapataxiv Brown Belt

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    Thats very interesting but that seems like a total paradigm shift when it comes to boxing education at the very least.
    From a surface view this reliance on a coach is kind of the current culture. you find a coach you like or is the most suitable in your area latch to the coach and the team and you get some face to face time hitting mitts and soaking up their knowledge.
    at least on the surface this trend seems to be apparent in the pro's as well, the first ajar example i can think of is Tyson who most people will say was never the same after Cus passed.
     
  12. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    ^That's what people like myself are hoping to change.

    Here's a couple more vids of the summer goings-on at the gym:





    Also, I posted that conditioning video of myself but I don't think I mentioned the context. So one day my older Son goes: "Dad, can you flip?" When I said: "No I can't"...he said: "Well, you'll have to learn." I honestly tried to come up with a decent argument in my head for a few minutes before I realized it was just laziness talking since I hadn't trained seriously in years. There was no valid reason NOT to learn to flip. So that's what I'm preparing for, and it was a good 40th Birthday goal for this year, do something I've never done before. Here's another clip of the preparation:

     
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  13. listrahtes

    listrahtes Brown Belt

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    I dont get (language barrier) what a "flip" is in this context. Do you mean a front / back flip from standing position or a flip out of push up stance?

    or an all in one :D
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    A back flip from standing position.
     
  15. Sano

    Sano Black Belt

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    Nice. Never to late to learn skills. Take your time and do it right, maybe go to a gymnastic gym and get a few lessons? It'll pay bigtime in the long run, and will prob be safer too. Man, it's fun learning new stuff, I'm working on handstands right now (want to be able to freestand for 30 seconds) and also getting into juggling (mostly for a fun way to keep the brain active).

    Happy practice!
     
  16. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I actually found a backflip tutorial that made a ton of sense. It gives a good process to getting over the mental aspect of putting your ass above your head. I think that'll do. Gymnastics is above my economic class, that shit is for rich suburban kids or minority kids whose parents give up EVERYTHING
     
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  17. Sano

    Sano Black Belt

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    Fair enough haha. I've always been a _tiny bit_ freaked out by anything that involves jumping around in the air, but I'm a wuss that way. I'm sure you'll figure it out.
     
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  18. right hand lead

    right hand lead Green Belt

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    Yo @Sinister Im heading to Vegas for the end of the month I got a guy fighting on DWTNCS ... hoping to stop by tocco’s!
     
  19. DoctorTaco

    DoctorTaco Breadhead

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    if you’re planning on training at toccos start hitting the bag in one of those hot sauna rooms now. It’ll help condition your will to live when you get there to work out
     
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  20. BillytheFish

    BillytheFish Purple Belt

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    @Sinister very much enjoy your gym videos. I'd love if my kid was near you for training...I've tried long and hard to find a good gym near me that is suitable (Dallas).

    So far all I have found is these gyms and never went back:

    Gym 1: put novice kids in a tire and the coaches screamed KILL HIM KILL HIM (at 6 year olds)
    Gym 2: a good gym but pretty much zero time for teaching anyone other than their 4 top fighters
    Gym 3: had novices coaching other novices and deciding the routine to do, while the 2 'coaches' sat on their phones for 90 mins- without looking up let alone coaching.
     

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