What to do when patner stalls on their knees at start of a roll?

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Thycidides

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One problem I have is when someone refuses to either play guard or try to pass mine and just sits there in a crouch while trying to control my arms. I find this very frustrating. For a while I would just go to half guard and try to sweep form there, but now guys are trying to avoid my attempts to pull them into half guard.

Any advice for a white belt?
 
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When folks don't engage, I give them turtle, side control, or mount. Look to escape and force the position you want.
 
Are you on your back in closed guard?

If yes, break his posture and attack. If not you should be sitting up. Go for arm drags, etc
 
1. Get good grips to sweep from before pulling guard.
2. Make your guard pull an immediate sweep attempt.

This works well for hook flips as well as immediate omoplata and triangle attacks (the latter from a same side sleeve and collar grip). Getting a 2-1 grip also facilitates attacking immediately.
 
bum rush them with a knee tap, basically a kneeling ankle pick, works good in the gi too
 
Get into any number of open guards and consider it an opportunity to work on something.
 
Thycidides said:
One problem I have is when someone refuses to either play guard or try to pass mine and just sits there while trying to control my arms. I find this very frustrating. For a while I would just go to half guard and try to sweep form there, but now guys are trying to avoid my attempts to pull them into half guard.

Any advice for a white belt?
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It sounds like he's in your closed guard. If he's controlling your arms, by default you're also controlling his. Break his posture and go on the attack.
 
Cross chokes usually get a reaction from people. If you get your grips they'll start freaking out trying to get out, and it opens things up for you. If they fight your attempts to grip the collar, you get opportunities for sweeps.
 
Stand up
Push opponent over
Yell "2 points"
 
Thycidides said:
One problem I have is when someone refuses to either play guard or try to pass mine and just sits there while trying to control my arms. I find this very frustrating. For a while I would just go to half guard and try to sweep form there, but now guys are trying to avoid my attempts to pull them into half guard.

Any advice for a white belt?
Click to expand...

if he's in your closed guard, break his posture (pull knees to your chest and grab his head). Once he reacts by pulling back, hip bump sweep him. if he posts an arm, snatch a kimura.
 
I should have been clearer... in my situation the guy just sits on his knees and refuses engage at all. I can't even get to the closed guard, as he avoids that.

In the past I would go to turtle, but turtle is kind of a sucky position and I'm basically rewarding them for being a lame training partner.

Standing up, pushing them over and yelling 2 points Is good idea though,
 
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A lot of beginners do that. They try to wrestle from the knees.

I would rather start on the feet and fight for takedowns or start from turtle or some other position for specific training.

But when the mat is full and the coach yells "no takedowns today. Start on knees" to me that means that one guy should probably fall back into an open guard or butterfly guard and then work from there.

Wrestling from the knees is also a little dangerous. Someone could tear their knee falling backwards or to the side if you push their upper body with a lot of force.

Now I absolutely love working turtle position, whether I am on top or bottom. I am a wrestler at heart so to me it is basically fighting for two points but I really don't like starting to wrestle on the knees in BJJ.

If a new person comes in and they start pushing on me I will just fall back into open guard and from there they will start looking to pass while I am defending the pass and looking for a sweep.

If they are stubborn and do that again when we restart on the knees, this time I might look for a snap down on their neck and spin around to the back or if I don't feel like dealing with all that I will just lay back in open guard again.

A lot of new people have a fear of being on bottom and will not willingly go there. One day they are going to have to learn so just put them there with a sweep. Too much trouble and risk of injury to play Greco on your knees.

You don't see too many experienced grapplers sit there and push on each other and resist while on their knees.

Sorry for the long rant. This subject is kind of a pet peeve of mine. My answer is open guard and butterfly guard and from there either work a sweep or look to lock up your full guard.
 
Thycidides said:
I should have been clearer... in my situation the guy just sits on his knees and refuses engage at all. I can't even get to the closed guard, as he avoids that.

In the past I would go to turtle, but turtle is kind of a sucky position and I'm basically rewarding them for being a lame training partner.

Standing up, pushing them over and yelling 2 points Is good idea though,
Click to expand...

When this happens, my solution is to just stand up and grab a front headlock.
 
People who stall on their knees usually jump into half guard.
 
You can say "we are wasting time, either you start in my guard or I star in your guard"
 
if he's in "combat base" (one leg crouched, the other flat) Ankle picks are good, as well as arm drags. If he's flat on both knees,some times a two handed shove even works. If they react to it by pushing forward, a quick balance down is basically unbeatable. In the very least, they'll bring a leg forward to stop it, allowing you to dive into half guard....but typically if you hit it quick and smooth enough you just pull'em on over. Most people will tell you knee wrestling is useless, but I tend to lean towards it's an okay way to learn balance and "push, pull techniques"......It's not bad if you're just starting out and have never really grappled before......I wouldn't make it the only way you start though...My opinion anyways.
 
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Thycidides said:
I should have been clearer... in my situation the guy just sits on his knees and refuses engage at all. I can't even get to the closed guard, as he avoids that.

In the past I would go to turtle, but turtle is kind of a sucky position and I'm basically rewarding them for being a lame training partner.

Standing up, pushing them over and yelling 2 points Is good idea though,
Click to expand...
Don't lay on your back. Sit up and attack
 
nefti said:
You can say "we are wasting time, either you start in my guard or I star in your guard"
Click to expand...

Guard is pretty easy to get on a knee wrestler. It isn't usually that hard to grab their sleeves and jump your feet onto their hips.
 
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