- Joined
- Aug 14, 2007
- Messages
- 9,794
- Reaction score
- 2,625
No need to eat quite so much protein http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/
What supplements should I take for weight gain?
- Thread starter Dream101
- Start date
- Joined
- May 27, 2006
- Messages
- 22,580
- Reaction score
- 23,623
There's always conflicting evidence on this one. Notice that the references that they use are quite old with the most recent being 2006 and most of the periods of study were quite short for most. There has been a lot of research since.
I'm going to go with the recommendations of several PHDs that I respect, one of which did his PHD on muscle protein synthesis.
"As such, there is simply no empirically substantiated reason to think we need more than 0.82g/lb" Difference between 0.82g and 1 is probably one scoop of whey protein for most and negligible really so it really doesn't hurt to go slightly over optimal as you need to make up those calories with one of the other macros anyway.
That's just my take anyway.
I'm going to go with the recommendations of several PHDs that I respect, one of which did his PHD on muscle protein synthesis.
"As such, there is simply no empirically substantiated reason to think we need more than 0.82g/lb" Difference between 0.82g and 1 is probably one scoop of whey protein for most and negligible really so it really doesn't hurt to go slightly over optimal as you need to make up those calories with one of the other macros anyway.
That's just my take anyway.
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2015
- Messages
- 1,291
- Reaction score
- 0
you can mix this stuff in with your protein.....
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2004
- Messages
- 8,967
- Reaction score
- 1,171
Not 40-50g of carbs but white sugar.
- Joined
- May 27, 2006
- Messages
- 22,580
- Reaction score
- 23,623
OK my bad, I misinterpreted that one.
My main weakness has always been bread... and alcohol... and desserts... and anything tasty actually. Kind of shocking that I don't weigh 400lb really. Food is awesome
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2014
- Messages
- 501
- Reaction score
- 5
I'm currently looking for supplements to gain weight as well. The mass gainer by MHP, "up your mass", seems to be one of the more popular ones. I might pull the trigger on purchasing this.
http://reviews.bodybuilding.com/MHP/Up_Your_Mass/
http://reviews.bodybuilding.com/MHP/Up_Your_Mass/
- Joined
- Nov 10, 2010
- Messages
- 956
- Reaction score
- 0
OK my bad, I misinterpreted that one.
My main weakness has always been bread... and alcohol... and desserts... and anything tasty actually. Kind of shocking that I don't weigh 400lb really. Food is awesome
Naked pic (no home) on scales or you are actually a 400Ib troll........
- Joined
- May 27, 2006
- Messages
- 22,580
- Reaction score
- 23,623
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2015
- Messages
- 1,291
- Reaction score
- 0
Im not sure if they sell it still but "STEALTH" by vpx...is also good i would look online ...UYM would be my second choice ,
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2014
- Messages
- 501
- Reaction score
- 5
Does anyone have thoughts on whether it is too much to take a mass gainer and whey on the same day? E.g. gainer in the morning and whey post workout.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2012
- Messages
- 88,682
- Reaction score
- 40,768
If youre actually eating decent foods you wont come close to 40-50 g of sugar to begin with so that in a shake isnt a big deal.
If I were going to spend the time on making something to eat it certainly wouldnt be a shake. But thats just me.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2012
- Messages
- 88,682
- Reaction score
- 40,768
Nothing wrong with it.
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2015
- Messages
- 1,291
- Reaction score
- 0
You always want different proteins in your system...whey isn't a complete protein.....the less popular ones like spirulina /Milk protein/ Hemp/ Casein/ are the more important ones for building mass...whey should only be drank after a work out.Even Soy is good for some,i respond well to it so only you would know. A good mass gainer will have a little whey in it but it doesn't hurt to have a whey shake to keep protein in the system.Adding creatine to protein shakes also makes it more absorbable in the blood stream.Some gainers may have it already in the formula. .Its always good to have more calories and excess protein,ther liver will just shuttle out the excess.
A little Tribulus never hurts in the long run either to somewhat elevate natural testosterone.
Below I pasted a link of the better ptotein than what actually in the popular brands...you can add whatever to them as tatse may not be there but results will be.These are old school protiens that are better absorbed in the body..ive always switched everyother 2 months or so with this brand......
Warrior Food™ Natural Vegan Protein
Price:
Base price: $28.69
Sales price: $22.95
Discount: $5.74
Please use drop down to select your product. Sales price will automatically change.
Warrior Food Natural Sizes
Size
<input type="hidden" name="task" value="add" />
Quantity Discounts**
1-2
3-5
6-11
12+
$54.95
$53.85
$52.75
$51.65
**Sales price will automatically change when you reach the eligible price break.
Warrior Food™ Natural: Complete Protein This is the best protein formula available. Non Toxic • Vegan • Raw • Hard Core. Easy to absorb and assimilate therefore you need less protein.
1
Ask a question about this product
The Ultimate Protein Supplement!
Complete Protein Plant-Based SuperFood Formula for True Warriors™!
This is the best protein formula available.
Non Toxic • Vegan • Raw • Hard-Core
Easier to absorb and assimilate, therefore, you need less actual protein.
The Story of Warrior Force™
I have been into athletics all of my life. Not just “sports,” but hard-hitting, muscle-pumping, heart-pounding, mentally-grueling, endurance-testing sports...Warrior Sports. I am also hard-core into health! Unfortunately, sports “nutrition” products usually have nothing to do with actual health. They are notoriously unhealthy, many of them downright toxic — ultimately contributing to a Warrior’s demise. I am a Naturopath and Herbal medicine researcher, and have embraced a hard-core healing lifestyle for 26 years, during which I have seen people who had healthy looking physiques degenerate and die much too soon (or die suddenly) due to their toxic diet, lifestyle, and supplements. NOT ANYMORE. I have vowed to change that and Warrior Force™ products are part of that change.
Warrior Food™ Extreme
Warrior Food™ enhances your physical appearance and your performance, without sacrificing your health...or your ethics. 100% high performance complete protein/amino acid profile with branched chain amino acids for performance and mass. 100% Raw. 100% Vegan! Regardless of your diet, lifestyle and ethics, whether you are a professional athlete or a “weekend warrior,” this is the best performing protein supplement you can buy (with phytonutrient benefits way beyond isolated proteins).
*These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.
What is a True Warrior™?
A True Warrior™ is kind (to others — even kind to non-warriors, kind to animals, and kind to the earth), unselfish, caring, and lives consciously by a code of ethics/honor such as Bushido (Samurai) or Chivalry (Knights), yet at the same time is completely willing to stand up for those who need it and unleash a fury of appropriate force should battle be required. A True Warrior™ is conscious of all the choices made in life, and is open-minded. The world needs more True Warriors™. Are you a True Warrior™? If not, I invite you to become one!
Dr. Jameth Sheridan (D.H.M.)
Doctor of Holistic Medicine and Proud True Warrior™
Protein Blend
• Sprouted, Enzymatically Activated, NON-GMO Brown Rice Protein◊∞ (80% protein, 20% nutrients)
• Hemp Protein◊∞
Enhancement Blend
• Nopal Cactus∞ (endurance and blood sugar function)
◊Organic °Wildcrafted ∞TruGanic™ †Daily Value not established
Hard-Core Non-Toxic Warrior Formulas™: Warrior Food™ says “No Whey” to high acid-forming, kidney-damaging animal proteins. No metabolic toxins from animal tissue/parts. BETTER AMINO ACID PROFILE THAN WHEY! Contains BCAAs for performance and mass. No chemicals or isolated nutrients. Nothing artificial. NON-GMO. Gluten Free. TruGanic™. Best of everything for the best ever Warrior!
Hard-Core Warrior Packaging™: Hard plastic (THIS package): Minimum offgassing. 100% recyclable. Preserves nutrients. Oxygen absorber. Relative high cost vs. soft foil/plastic pouch: Maximum offgassing (BAD). 0% recyclable (BAD). Degrades nutrients (BAD). Cheapest package. You decide.
Energenesis™ Energetic Enhancements:
• Magnetic • Vibrational+
All ingredients are optimally dried for maximum life force.
The Warrior Food™ Hard-Core Warrior Force™ Power Smoothie
• 8 ounces pure water, nut/seed milk, or coconut water
• 2 heaping tablespoons Warrior Food™ (Extreme Chocolate Plus, Extreme Vanilla Plus, or Natural)
• 1 cup fresh or frozen berries (blueberries, strawberries, blackberries, in any combination)
Optional sweeteners: 1 tablespoon raw, ethical, organic, whole honey, 2 medjool dates, or 2 tablespoons coconut nectar
Nut/Seed Milk: Start with raw organic almonds, hazelnuts, sesame, or hemp seeds (or any other nuts/seeds of choice). Soak nuts/seeds in water overnight for 8 to 12 hours. Blend 1 cup soaked nuts/seeds with 4 cups water in high-powered blender for 1 to 2 minutes. Strain pulp through a mesh cloth, squeezing out all the “milk.” Will stay fresh in refrigerator for 3 to 4 days to use regularly for superfood concoctions.
Additional HealthForce SuperFood products (1 heaping tablespoon):
• Chlorella Manna™
• Elixir of The Lake™
• Friendly Fats™
• Fruits of the Earth™
• Greener Grasses™ Alkalizer
• MacaForce™
•Spirulina Azteca™
• Spirulina Manna™
• Truly Natural™ Vitamin C
• Vitamineral Earth™
• Vitamineral Green™
Joomla SEF URLs by Artio
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2014
- Messages
- 352
- Reaction score
- 0
You really have no idea what you're talking about.You always want different proteins in your system...whey isn't a complete protein.....the less popular ones like spirulina /Milk protein/ Hemp/ Casein/ are the more important ones for building mass...whey should only be drank after a work out.Even Soy is good for some,i respond well to it so only you would know. A good mass gainer will have a little whey in it but it doesn't hurt to have a whey shake to keep protein in the system.Adding creatine to protein shakes also makes it more absorbable in the blood stream.Some gainers may have it already in the formula. .Its always good to have more calories and excess protein,ther liver will just shuttle out the excess.
A little Tribulus never hurts in the long run either to somewhat elevate natural testosterone.
Below I pasted a link of the better ptotein than what actually in the popular brands...you can add whatever to them as tatse may not be there but results will be.These are old school protiens that are better absorbed in the body..ive always switched everyother 2 months or so with this brand......
Warrior Food™ Natural Vegan Protein
Price:
Base price: $28.69
Sales price: $22.95
Discount: $5.74
Please use drop down to select your product. Sales price will automatically change.
Warrior Food Natural Sizes
Size
<input type="hidden" name="task" value="add" />
Quantity Discounts**
1-2
3-5
6-11
12+
$54.95
$53.85
$52.75
$51.65
**Sales price will automatically change when you reach the eligible price break.
Warrior Food™ Natural: Complete Protein This is the best protein formula available. Non Toxic • Vegan • Raw • Hard Core. Easy to absorb and assimilate therefore you need less protein.
1
Ask a question about this product
The Ultimate Protein Supplement!
Complete Protein Plant-Based SuperFood Formula for True Warriors™!
This is the best protein formula available.
Non Toxic • Vegan • Raw • Hard-Core
Easier to absorb and assimilate, therefore, you need less actual protein.
The Story of Warrior Force™
I have been into athletics all of my life. Not just “sports,” but hard-hitting, muscle-pumping, heart-pounding, mentally-grueling, endurance-testing sports...Warrior Sports. I am also hard-core into health! Unfortunately, sports “nutrition” products usually have nothing to do with actual health. They are notoriously unhealthy, many of them downright toxic — ultimately contributing to a Warrior’s demise. I am a Naturopath and Herbal medicine researcher, and have embraced a hard-core healing lifestyle for 26 years, during which I have seen people who had healthy looking physiques degenerate and die much too soon (or die suddenly) due to their toxic diet, lifestyle, and supplements. NOT ANYMORE. I have vowed to change that and Warrior Force™ products are part of that change.
Warrior Food™ Extreme
Warrior Food™ enhances your physical appearance and your performance, without sacrificing your health...or your ethics. 100% high performance complete protein/amino acid profile with branched chain amino acids for performance and mass. 100% Raw. 100% Vegan! Regardless of your diet, lifestyle and ethics, whether you are a professional athlete or a “weekend warrior,” this is the best performing protein supplement you can buy (with phytonutrient benefits way beyond isolated proteins).
*These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.
What is a True Warrior™?
A True Warrior™ is kind (to others — even kind to non-warriors, kind to animals, and kind to the earth), unselfish, caring, and lives consciously by a code of ethics/honor such as Bushido (Samurai) or Chivalry (Knights), yet at the same time is completely willing to stand up for those who need it and unleash a fury of appropriate force should battle be required. A True Warrior™ is conscious of all the choices made in life, and is open-minded. The world needs more True Warriors™. Are you a True Warrior™? If not, I invite you to become one!
Dr. Jameth Sheridan (D.H.M.)
Doctor of Holistic Medicine and Proud True Warrior™
Warrior Food™ Vegan Protein Ingredients
Protein Blend
• Sprouted, Enzymatically Activated, NON-GMO Brown Rice Protein◊∞ (80% protein, 20% nutrients)
• Hemp Protein◊∞
Enhancement Blend
• Nopal Cactus∞ (endurance and blood sugar function)
◊Organic °Wildcrafted ∞TruGanic™ †Daily Value not established
Hard-Core Non-Toxic Warrior Formulas™: Warrior Food™ says “No Whey” to high acid-forming, kidney-damaging animal proteins. No metabolic toxins from animal tissue/parts. BETTER AMINO ACID PROFILE THAN WHEY! Contains BCAAs for performance and mass. No chemicals or isolated nutrients. Nothing artificial. NON-GMO. Gluten Free. TruGanic™. Best of everything for the best ever Warrior!
Hard-Core Warrior Packaging™: Hard plastic (THIS package): Minimum offgassing. 100% recyclable. Preserves nutrients. Oxygen absorber. Relative high cost vs. soft foil/plastic pouch: Maximum offgassing (BAD). 0% recyclable (BAD). Degrades nutrients (BAD). Cheapest package. You decide.
Energenesis™ Energetic Enhancements:
• Magnetic • Vibrational+
All ingredients are optimally dried for maximum life force.
The Warrior Food™ Hard-Core Warrior Force™ Power Smoothie
• 8 ounces pure water, nut/seed milk, or coconut water
• 2 heaping tablespoons Warrior Food™ (Extreme Chocolate Plus, Extreme Vanilla Plus, or Natural)
• 1 cup fresh or frozen berries (blueberries, strawberries, blackberries, in any combination)
Optional sweeteners: 1 tablespoon raw, ethical, organic, whole honey, 2 medjool dates, or 2 tablespoons coconut nectar
Nut/Seed Milk: Start with raw organic almonds, hazelnuts, sesame, or hemp seeds (or any other nuts/seeds of choice). Soak nuts/seeds in water overnight for 8 to 12 hours. Blend 1 cup soaked nuts/seeds with 4 cups water in high-powered blender for 1 to 2 minutes. Strain pulp through a mesh cloth, squeezing out all the “milk.” Will stay fresh in refrigerator for 3 to 4 days to use regularly for superfood concoctions.
Additional HealthForce SuperFood products (1 heaping tablespoon):
• Chlorella Manna™
• Elixir of The Lake™
• Friendly Fats™
• Fruits of the Earth™
• Greener Grasses™ Alkalizer
• MacaForce™
•Spirulina Azteca™
• Spirulina Manna™
• Truly Natural™ Vitamin C
• Vitamineral Earth™
• Vitamineral Green™
Joomla SEF URLs by Artio
Whey IS considered a complete protein because it contains all 9 essential amino acids.
You mention caesin whey and then milk protein; the protein in milk is a combination of caesin and whey.
Lol at recommending soy which promotes estrogen production.
Creatine helping protein absorption is highly doubtful. An influx of insulin caused buy sugar can supposedly help nutrient absorption.
My favourite part was when you said "A little Tribulus never hurts in the long run either to somewhat elevate natural testosterone." i'll tell you why it doesnt hurt.... Because a little tribulus does NOTHING, go get some bloodwork done before, during and after using tribulus then tell me how much it increases test levels.
I fucking hate people like you. Pls respond.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2012
- Messages
- 88,682
- Reaction score
- 40,768
Lol at this entire post of nonsense.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2009
- Messages
- 20,197
- Reaction score
- 1,977
You have to consume more calories than you are comfortable with normally eating.
Lots of food based protein, lots of fast and slow releasing carbs, and lots of healthy fats.
Lots of food based protein, lots of fast and slow releasing carbs, and lots of healthy fats.
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2015
- Messages
- 1,291
- Reaction score
- 0
w
But hey what do ui know winning some power lifting events ,body building /weight lift over nearly 3 decades also being qa former Arm Wrestling champ over some little kid with a temper tantrum,maybe the staff troll even knows more then me also ?But then again i have yet to see him break down anything really on any thread ! LOL
Caseins and whey proteins are the two main protein groups in milk. Caseins, representing about 80% of the protein content in bovine milk, are isolated from milk by acid or by rennet precipitation. The acid, or isoelectric, precipitation is performed at pH 4.6, where the caseins precipitate and the whey proteins remain soluble. Caseins are flexible and heat stable proteins.
The amino acid composition is the most important factor in defining food protein quality, followed by the digestibility of the protein and the bioavailability of its amino acids. Because of their amino acid composition the main bovine milk proteins, caseins and whey proteins, can be regarded as a complete source of amino acids. Milk proteins are currently the main source of a range of biologically active peptides and the occurrence of their specific physiological properties which might have nutritional implication is another aspect of their nutritive value.
Regardless of these price permutations and shenanigans, whey protein is almost always cheaper than casein. Whey, in general, is simply a leftover product of making cheese, and some factories can process it into concentrate or isolate right there as the leftover whey flows down the slosh trays and PVC pipes.
Casein, however, is not a leftover or byproduct. It comes from actual milk. And when you start developing really sophisticated caseins like micellar caseins and casein hydrolysate, the price jumps considerably, but it's also worth the extra cost as we'll see in the next section.
Which is the Better Muscle Builder?
Casein is a better muscle builder, a better strength builder, and even a better fat burner.
That's not to say that whey proteins are a dog when it comes to sports nutrition. Quite the contrary, its quick absorption and high leucine content, particularly when it comes to whey hydrolysates, makes it a worthwhile protein, but athletes should opt for casein instead, especially when there are a couple of high-tech variations available.
Let's do some comparisons and look at different types of casein.
Generic Casein vs. Generic Whey
Casein results in greater deposition of protein than whey, which simply means more muscle. Whey causes protein synthesis to increase rapidly and to a high degree, but it doesn't last long. There's an increase in protein synthesis and protein oxidation, but there's no change in protein breakdown.
That last point is a huge negative for whey. Contrast that with casein, which, like whey, increases protein synthesis but inhibits breakdown to a large degree.
A good number of studies have confirmed that casein leads to superior gains of lean mass and strength.
One study using weight-trained subjects showed a doubling of lean mass gains and 50% greater fat loss over that of the whey group. The casein group also increased bench, shoulder press, and leg extension strength by a collective 59% whereas the whey group only had a 28% increase in strength.
Another study, this one with burn patients, showed that 70-75 grams of casein outperformed the same amount of whey. The casein group gained lean muscle twice as fast as the whey group, despite having to deal with the incredibly high metabolism and increased protein oxidation from injuries.
And those two are just a very small sampling of studies that have shown the superiority of generic casein. There are, however, sophisticated caseins whose muscle-building properties go much further than the generic, garden-variety caseins.
Micellar Casein
A micelle is a natural globular structure that appears in milk, and it's composed of all five casein milk proteins (alpha, beta, gamma, delta, and kappa). If acids or alkali processing remove one or more of these proteins, the casein micelle is destroyed.
The proteins would then have a lower level of bioactivity and the human body would then have much more difficulty digesting it and assimilating it.
Intact micelles, however, form clumps and hence are very slow to digest. That equates to a gradual release of amino acids and significantly higher concentrations of leucine in the bloodstream. Furthermore, micellar casein is profoundly anticatabolic.
As you might guess, micellar casein is hard to make, requiring a "delicate touch," chemically speaking. In fact, making and preserving micellar casein is like trying to catch a snowflake in Maine and then shipping it intact using UPS.
As such, it costs more than most other proteins, especially whey.
Casein Hydrolysate
Hydrolysates take an entirely different approach than micellar proteins. Unlike micellar caseins, they're heavily processed, but in this case it's a good thing.
The goal is to get a complex mixture of two and three amino acid (di- and tri-peptide) chains that have unique biochemical properties and that are absorbed intact, not requiring any further digestion.
Furthermore, casein hydrolysates are at least 30% more effective in stimulating muscle protein synthesis than intact casein.
Additionally, these rapidly-absorbed casein hydrolysates are ideal for peri- or intra-workout consumption, as studies have shown that ingesting them every 15 minutes during exercise led to substantially higher muscle protein synthesis.
However, protein hydrolysates made by different methods might have entirely different protein kinetics. In short, the notion that an amino acid is an amino acid no matter how it's administered is flat-out wrong. A proper muscle-building casein hydrolysate has to be made with muscle-building or strength in mind.
Casein hydrolysates also have another unique mode of action in that they're more insulinogenic than likewise rapidly absorbed whey proteins. Insulinogenic means they elicit a rise in insulin, which is exactly what you want in a protein during the peri-workout period because insulin shuttles amino acids to working muscles.
Wheys are comparatively light in the insulinogneic amino acids arginine, phenylalanine, and glutamine, whereas casein hydrolysates are high in arginine, glutamine, threonine, and total number of insulinogenic amino acids.
While it's true that casein hydrolysates are among the most expensive proteins in the world, they're also quite economical in one sense: A 10 to 20 gram dose of a good casein hydrolysate stimulates muscle protein synthesis to a much greater degree than a much, much larger dose of conventional proteins.
Also Soy doesn't promote large estrogen levels as a matter of fact you would have drink gallons of it a day....you saw that on some nonsense news clipping somewhere and assumed it to be true? So whos the fool?
Whey is not a complete protein when you take into what is bio availability that's absorbed because of the process....it doesn't maintain all of its amino uptake.....considered a complete protein but has less than the other types , i already stated having different protein in your system is ideal to gain weight ,casein, egg, and milk protein are the more important ones for sustaining blood protein longer because it is less slowly absorbed so it stays in your system longer ,hemp protein is ideal though that's my opinion, im assuming you can have the abilities to look things up ? Tribulus helps sustain levels of testosterone levels and usually has a slight effect after 2/3 months of daily usage ,you probably didnt know that bc its not recommended to take if your under 18 !
But hey what do ui know winning some power lifting events ,body building /weight lift over nearly 3 decades also being qa former Arm Wrestling champ over some little kid with a temper tantrum,maybe the staff troll even knows more then me also ?But then again i have yet to see him break down anything really on any thread ! LOL
Caseins and whey proteins are the two main protein groups in milk. Caseins, representing about 80% of the protein content in bovine milk, are isolated from milk by acid or by rennet precipitation. The acid, or isoelectric, precipitation is performed at pH 4.6, where the caseins precipitate and the whey proteins remain soluble. Caseins are flexible and heat stable proteins.
The amino acid composition is the most important factor in defining food protein quality, followed by the digestibility of the protein and the bioavailability of its amino acids. Because of their amino acid composition the main bovine milk proteins, caseins and whey proteins, can be regarded as a complete source of amino acids. Milk proteins are currently the main source of a range of biologically active peptides and the occurrence of their specific physiological properties which might have nutritional implication is another aspect of their nutritive value.
Regardless of these price permutations and shenanigans, whey protein is almost always cheaper than casein. Whey, in general, is simply a leftover product of making cheese, and some factories can process it into concentrate or isolate right there as the leftover whey flows down the slosh trays and PVC pipes.
Casein, however, is not a leftover or byproduct. It comes from actual milk. And when you start developing really sophisticated caseins like micellar caseins and casein hydrolysate, the price jumps considerably, but it's also worth the extra cost as we'll see in the next section.
Which is the Better Muscle Builder?
Casein is a better muscle builder, a better strength builder, and even a better fat burner.
That's not to say that whey proteins are a dog when it comes to sports nutrition. Quite the contrary, its quick absorption and high leucine content, particularly when it comes to whey hydrolysates, makes it a worthwhile protein, but athletes should opt for casein instead, especially when there are a couple of high-tech variations available.
Let's do some comparisons and look at different types of casein.
Generic Casein vs. Generic Whey
Casein results in greater deposition of protein than whey, which simply means more muscle. Whey causes protein synthesis to increase rapidly and to a high degree, but it doesn't last long. There's an increase in protein synthesis and protein oxidation, but there's no change in protein breakdown.
That last point is a huge negative for whey. Contrast that with casein, which, like whey, increases protein synthesis but inhibits breakdown to a large degree.
A good number of studies have confirmed that casein leads to superior gains of lean mass and strength.
One study using weight-trained subjects showed a doubling of lean mass gains and 50% greater fat loss over that of the whey group. The casein group also increased bench, shoulder press, and leg extension strength by a collective 59% whereas the whey group only had a 28% increase in strength.
Another study, this one with burn patients, showed that 70-75 grams of casein outperformed the same amount of whey. The casein group gained lean muscle twice as fast as the whey group, despite having to deal with the incredibly high metabolism and increased protein oxidation from injuries.
And those two are just a very small sampling of studies that have shown the superiority of generic casein. There are, however, sophisticated caseins whose muscle-building properties go much further than the generic, garden-variety caseins.
Micellar Casein
A micelle is a natural globular structure that appears in milk, and it's composed of all five casein milk proteins (alpha, beta, gamma, delta, and kappa). If acids or alkali processing remove one or more of these proteins, the casein micelle is destroyed.
The proteins would then have a lower level of bioactivity and the human body would then have much more difficulty digesting it and assimilating it.
Intact micelles, however, form clumps and hence are very slow to digest. That equates to a gradual release of amino acids and significantly higher concentrations of leucine in the bloodstream. Furthermore, micellar casein is profoundly anticatabolic.
As you might guess, micellar casein is hard to make, requiring a "delicate touch," chemically speaking. In fact, making and preserving micellar casein is like trying to catch a snowflake in Maine and then shipping it intact using UPS.
As such, it costs more than most other proteins, especially whey.
Casein Hydrolysate
Hydrolysates take an entirely different approach than micellar proteins. Unlike micellar caseins, they're heavily processed, but in this case it's a good thing.
The goal is to get a complex mixture of two and three amino acid (di- and tri-peptide) chains that have unique biochemical properties and that are absorbed intact, not requiring any further digestion.
Furthermore, casein hydrolysates are at least 30% more effective in stimulating muscle protein synthesis than intact casein.
Additionally, these rapidly-absorbed casein hydrolysates are ideal for peri- or intra-workout consumption, as studies have shown that ingesting them every 15 minutes during exercise led to substantially higher muscle protein synthesis.
However, protein hydrolysates made by different methods might have entirely different protein kinetics. In short, the notion that an amino acid is an amino acid no matter how it's administered is flat-out wrong. A proper muscle-building casein hydrolysate has to be made with muscle-building or strength in mind.
Casein hydrolysates also have another unique mode of action in that they're more insulinogenic than likewise rapidly absorbed whey proteins. Insulinogenic means they elicit a rise in insulin, which is exactly what you want in a protein during the peri-workout period because insulin shuttles amino acids to working muscles.
Wheys are comparatively light in the insulinogneic amino acids arginine, phenylalanine, and glutamine, whereas casein hydrolysates are high in arginine, glutamine, threonine, and total number of insulinogenic amino acids.
While it's true that casein hydrolysates are among the most expensive proteins in the world, they're also quite economical in one sense: A 10 to 20 gram dose of a good casein hydrolysate stimulates muscle protein synthesis to a much greater degree than a much, much larger dose of conventional proteins.
Also Soy doesn't promote large estrogen levels as a matter of fact you would have drink gallons of it a day....you saw that on some nonsense news clipping somewhere and assumed it to be true? So whos the fool?
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2014
- Messages
- 352
- Reaction score
- 0
You have skewed and selective knowlege on nutrition and i wont repeat my original post, nor will i waste my time arguing with an imbecile. Id like to see a picture of your body (no homo) to confirm my beliefs that youre flabby and most likely have gyno from the lack of testosterone in your body. I hope no-one takes your advice. Please stop advising people.
