What should be done to fix Social Security?

[ultramanhyata]

I'm probably the wrong guy to ask for sympathy for from the working poor
they don't' even pay taxes net, when you account the crazy credits and deductions they receive. Add in SS, WIC/TANF/SNAP, subsidized housing, phones, school lunches, etc... and good lawd, at that pt you have to be trying to stay poor

So you're saying that a person who chooses not to work at all is the same in your eyes as a person who works full-time, or more, but doesn't earn enough money from their labor to survive without subsidization from the taxpayer?

 

[Jack V Savage]

Great pt, I've 'met' some of the funniest people ever on this forum, and tbh come to this subforum for news and to learn about issues from numerous perspectives, or at least how my view differs from those that have feelings and empathy and shit haha

The broader point here is that value production is complicated, not well-measured in economic terms, and relies on existing societal capital as well as interaction with nature and with other living people. We use markets to distribute buying power and to price things because it works pretty well in terms of encouraging increases in the amount of goods and services we can produce, but there isn't some kind of moral law that what you get in the market is what you deserve and it isn't always rational. Like I said, we encourage the fiction that market outcomes are relatively just because we don't like to feel like either moochers or suckers. And a lot of income distribution in America is completely conventional. We can change policy to make old people poorer overall, richer overall, and to make their distribution lumpier (from individual to individual or year to year). There's no logic or moral necessity to any of it.

 

[gtm3]

Very odd response. You expressed ignorance of the fact that we've been overcollecting for SS (that is, bringing in more in dedicated taxes than paying out in benefits) and building a trust fund. You asked for a link confirming that widely known fact, and I provided one.

This is NOT how you analyze the financial viability of a long-term fund. At all.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

So you're saying that a person who chooses not to work at all is the same in your eyes as a person who works full-time, or more, but doesn't earn enough money from their labor to survive without subsidization from the taxpayer?

oh no, if you work even some min wage job, you at least are attempting to provide for yourself. That earns respect in my eyes, no matter what, especially compared to those that literally mooch by not working.

I just don't want to have my taxes raised to give them any further help, it's not my fault they chose an employer that pays shitty wages

 

[Jack V Savage]

This is NOT how you analyze the financial viability of a long-term fund. At all.

Um, OK. You weren't asking for an analysis of the financial viability of a long-term fund, genius. You didn't even know there was a surplus invested in bonds. I just pointed you to a resource where you could learn about that. This is like if you expressed disbelief in the idea that bananas grow on trees, and I sent you a picture, and you said that that was a poor way to evaluate the health of the tree.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

ya I think he was just showing you the link directly from the SSA, not going into the bid/ask spread of the individual bond ETFS or Mutual Funds they invested in

 

[Jack V Savage]

ya I think he was just showing you the link directly from the SSA, not going into the bid/ask spread of the individual bond ETFS or Mutual Funds they invested in

Yeah, it's amazing how quickly he jumped from not knowing that the trust fund even existed to wanting to discuss how it is doing (and, weirdly, assuming that a link confirming its existence WAS my discussion of how it's doing). We're not dealing with Newton over here.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

perhaps this is a dumb ?, but could the government not try and force more employers to offer pensions/retirement plans?

I mean it works for teachers, so wouldn't it work on a larger scale if the government gave incentive to orgs that started this?

I also realize that as Union power lessened here, that the trend has in fact gone the other direction

 

[gtm3]

Um, OK. You weren't asking for an analysis of the financial viability of a long-term fund, genius. You didn't even know there was a surplus invested in bonds. I just pointed you to a resource where you could learn about that. This is like if you expressed disbelief in the idea that bananas grow on trees, and I sent you a picture, and you said that that was a poor way to evaluate the health of the tree.

Of course there is a fund, and of course money from the fund gets invested. Putting forth facts around the cash basis here is completely pointless. Who gives a shit that I have $500 in my pocket when I have a shitty job and $50K in student loans due in 2020.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Of course there is a fund, and of course money from the fund gets invested. Putting forth facts around the cash basis here is completely pointless. Who gives a shit that I have $500 in my pocket when I have a shitty job and $50K in student loans due in 2020.

So was this whole thing just a roundabout way to express some common point? You asked what the other guy meant when he referred to the current $3T surplus in the trust fund. I answered, and you asserted that there was no surplus. There is. It is expected to eventually run out (in somewhere between 20 and 75 years, most likely on the lower end of that range). That's why most people support doing something to replenish it. See some of the posts on the first page.

perhaps this is a dumb ?, but could the government not try and force more employers to offer pensions/retirement plans?

I mean it works for teachers, so wouldn't it work on a larger scale if the government gave incentive to orgs that started this?

I also realize that as Union power lessened here, that the trend has in fact gone the other direction

Nothing stopping that from happening, but I'm not sure it's good policy.

 

[panamaican]

most federal employees can't shop at the commissary, NO Contractors can. Not on an Army/USMC base. You HAVE to have a valid Active Duty/Reserve Military ID (not a CAC card, a Military ID) to shop at the commissary, at least for CONUS duty stations (they have some exceptions for OCONUS)
In fact the only reason I can go to the commissary and buy cigarettes is I'm still technically in the Reserves for another month

Exceptions for specific contractors can be made at the contract level but we're getting far afield at this point.

 

[panamaican]

perhaps this is a dumb ?, but could the government not try and force more employers to offer pensions/retirement plans?

I mean it works for teachers, so wouldn't it work on a larger scale if the government gave incentive to orgs that started this?

I also realize that as Union power lessened here, that the trend has in fact gone the other direction

Nothing stopping that from happening, but I'm not sure it's good policy.

It's not a good policy. Pensions are prohibitively expensive and destroy flexibility. They're dead weight on the balance sheet. Not to mention that they're an administrative nightmare for employees that move between companies during their professional career. U.S. companies tried this and these types of costs are what made foreign labor so attractive in the early years.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

perhaps this is a dumb ?, but could the government not try and force more employers to offer pensions/retirement plans?

I mean it works for teachers, so wouldn't it work on a larger scale if the government gave incentive to orgs that started this?

I also realize that as Union power lessened here, that the trend has in fact gone the other direction

Why not just raise taxes on the rich and increase SS' benefits? Society would achieve the goal of greater retirement security without the hassle panamaican described.