What should be done to fix Social Security?

[Jack V Savage]

There are few things I have encountered in political discussion quite as ignorant as the belief that the minuscule amount the working poor pay in federal taxes would provide them with a secure retirement were they allowed to keep a larger percentage of it. It's beyond laughable.

Additionally, it doesn't matter. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that eliminating the tax led to people investing for their old age and the returns were even better than SS. That would mean that a higher percentage of national income is going to old, retired people and a lower percentage would go to younger, working people. That doesn't necessarily sound like a good outcome, and even if you like it, you could get the same results by raising taxes and increasing SS benefits.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

also, for so many people contributing so much through the private economy, we sure have mad cats here that spend an AWFULLY high amount of time posting on an internet forum

contributing all day, every day

 

[Jack V Savage]

how do you know those that opt out would need aid?

that's an absurd statement

It's not an absurd statement. It's actually 100% that some would and some wouldn't.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Particpating in society, and wholeheartedly funding large demographics of it for doing literally nothing are two different things

Nothing says "lazy bum" like people working three part-time jobs, 50 hours a week.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

It's not an absurd statement. It's actually 100% that some would and some wouldn't.

oh no doubt, I thought you mean ALL would need it.

I mean people win the lottery and more often than not go bankrupt, there are a ton of fiscally irresponsible people hanging around haha

 

[kpt018]

I participate in society quite nicely, my literal job is helping military people transition into civilian life and preventing any problems assimilating.

Particpating in society, and wholeheartedly funding large demographics of it for doing literally nothing are two different things

So you exchange labor for money, wow, that's really great.

 

[ultramanhyata]

It's not an absurd statement. It's actually 100% that some would and some wouldn't.

Here is the ultimate poster child for the opt-out now, need later crew.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

how do you know those that opt out would need aid?

that's an absurd statement

what about retired military/law enforcement?

Because at least a percentage of the ones that could pay for a private security plan would spend it on drugs and hookers.
You could let them die at the streets when they are old, but it would be terrible politically and could lead to some populist politician take advantage.

The biggest issue would be the working poor, the rich opt out, the system collapses, the working poor are left destitute or having to be taken care of by their children(it is Ok to an extent, most decent people take care of their parents later in life but if they also have to financially sustain them its very hard) which would lead to more poverty, slums, violence and so on.

 

[gtm3]

Huh?

We've overcollected for SS over the years and invested the surplus in a trust fund. This is common knowledge. But here:

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/fundFAQ.html

Oh dear. If you think this is how a fund should be analyzed you are completely beyond hope. The people around this place blow my mind.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

Nothing says "lazy bum" like people working three part-time jobs, 50 hours a week.

who are you referring to me? people that receive SS aren't working in general, certainly not 3 jobs for 50 hours

So you exchange labor for money, wow, that's really great.

condescend much?

carry on, as you were

 

[kpt018]

condescend much?

carry on, as you were

I tried to have a dialogue here but when a poster can't admit things outside of their control happen in life I knew there was no hope for an honest conversation.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Oh dear. If you think this is how a fund should be analyzed you are completely beyond hope. The people around this place blow my mind.

Very odd response. You expressed ignorance of the fact that we've been overcollecting for SS (that is, bringing in more in dedicated taxes than paying out in benefits) and building a trust fund. You asked for a link confirming that widely known fact, and I provided one.

 

[Jack V Savage]

also, for so many people contributing so much through the private economy, we sure have mad cats here that spend an AWFULLY high amount of time posting on an internet forum

contributing all day, every day

This is a major, uncompensated benefit that we all provide to each other.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

I tried to have a dialogue here but when a poster can't admit things outside of their control happen in life I knew there was no hope for an honest conversation.

that's a strawman my dude

I never said things can't happen out of one's control, even something like an Act of God could destroy a whole community, I got it.

I just don't have sympathy for people in those situations, b/c oh well that's life. Shit happens, to most people in fact.

We can't simultaneously worry about overpopulation and lack of natural resources and the environment, while also cherishing every single life like it's actually precious and deserved to be supported by those that actually work.

 

[ultramanhyata]

who are you referring to me? people that receive SS aren't working in general, certainly not 3 jobs for 50 hours

I'm talking about the working poor; the bulk of whose retirement income will ultimately come from the SS program.

Because your position was that you didn't want to help fund it for use by others. Who, in your mind, for some reason, had done "virtually nothing" over the course of their working lives.

 

[ultramanhyata]

We can't simultaneously worry about overpopulation and lack of natural resources and the environment, while also cherishing every single life like it's actually precious and deserved to be supported by those that actually work.

There it is again. lol

 

[HunterSdVa29]

I'm talking about the working poor; the bulk of whose retirement income will ultimately come from the SS program.

Because your position was that you didn't want to help fund it for use by others. Who, in your mind, for some reason, had done "virtually nothing" over the course of their working lives.

I'm probably the wrong guy to ask for sympathy for from the working poor
they don't' even pay taxes net, when you account the crazy credits and deductions they receive. Add in SS, WIC/TANF/SNAP, subsidized housing, phones, school lunches, etc... and good lawd, at that pt you have to be trying to stay poor

 

[HunterSdVa29]

This is a major, uncompensated benefit that we all provide to each other.

Great pt, I've 'met' some of the funniest people ever on this forum, and tbh come to this subforum for news and to learn about issues from numerous perspectives, or at least how my view differs from those that have feelings and empathy and shit haha

 

[ultramanhyata]

Oh dear. If you think this is how a fund should be analyzed you are completely beyond hope. The people around this place blow my mind.

Is this your way of admitting you were wrong about the existence of the SS trust funds??

 

[kpt018]

that's a strawman my dude

I never said things can't happen out of one's control, even something like an Act of God could destroy a whole community, I got it.

I just don't have sympathy for people in those situations, b/c oh well that's life. Shit happens, to most people in fact.

We can't simultaneously worry about overpopulation and lack of natural resources and the environment, while also cherishing every single life like it's actually precious and deserved to be supported by those that actually work.

It's not a strawman, you've actually argued that it's their own fault if they're not prepared for retirement. Whatever.

Again, you're free to be a heartless asshole. I don't care to try and change your mind.