What PRIDE fighters in their prime could compete in todays game?

[hymn]

moose is clearly doing well

 

[Flokk]

All of them.

Hammer House guys would need to bring in BJJ ace Dillon Anus tho.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

No.
Even though you disagree with the opinion, you’re bowing out of the conversation by not acknowledging the definition of the term overrated.

We were having a good discussion about Shogun, which is a shame.

Maybe we can have an amicable talk in another thread on another topic. I seem to have struck a nerve somewhere

Overrated is a relative term, what was 2000-2007 JMMA overrated in comparison to? It's certainly not overrated compared to non JMMA during that time frame and most people agree that their 205 division and HW division overall is better than the current best LHW and HW divisions so how exactly is it very overrated?

 

[Stevanchez]

I don’t think Nog would transplant. HIs offensive boxing was very good, but defensively he relied on his chin and despite his BJJ cried I don’t think he’s taking a lot of guys down at HW.

How do you see prime Nog faring any worse than Werdum?

Similar size and fight style. Werdum probably has more power and more diverse striking, but Nog has a better chin and more technical striking/defense. Nog was a better offensive grappler/wrestler and his back game was on a similar level to Werdum's.

He wouldn't make weight

With two scales and 15 people holding the worlds strongest towel, he might.

 

[Taric]

The current LHW and HW rosters blow and would get beaten by a lot of the older UFC/PRIDE LHW and HW fighters.

 

[Threetrees]

Overrated is a relative term, what was 2000-2007 JMMA overrated in comparison to? It's certainly not overrated compared to non JMMA during that time frame and most people agree that their 205 division and HW division overall is better than the current best LHW and HW divisions so how exactly is it very overrated?

No.
The term overrated is relative to the rating at the time. It is not relative to something other than the rating.

 

[Threetrees]

How do you see prime Nog faring any worse than Werdum?

Similar size and fight style. Werdum probably has more power and more diverse striking, but Nog has a better chin and more technical striking/defense. Nog was a better offensive grappler/wrestler and his back game was on a similar level to Werdum's.


With two scales and 15 people holding the worlds strongest towel, he might.

Do you mean Pride Werdum or UFC Werdum?

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

No.
The term overrated is relative to the rating at the time. It is not relative to something other than the rating.

You sound like a hipster, saying something is overrated because most agree that it was great.

 

[Stevanchez]

Do you mean Pride Werdum or UFC Werdum?

PRIDE Nog, current Werdum.

 

[Threetrees]

You sound like a hipster, saying something is overrated because most agree that it was great.

No. I sound like someone that is using the term correctly to foster discussion.

Seriously. Take a breather, it’ll all be okay. We can have differing opinions. You don’t have to respect mine but I respect yours.

 

[Threetrees]

PRIDE Nog, current Werdum.

Current Werdum is a more diverse striker and despite running straight into Stipe’s right he has better defense.

Or at least he had better defense until recently, I think he’s fallen off pretty badly in the past two years.
People will disagree also, but I think he’s a better more completely grappler than Nog. He’s got a better pedigree, and I think his grappling game has done nothing but improve as of late.

I also think he’s a better athlete and I think he’s significantly bigger? I might be wrong on that and I don’t want to look it up

 

[Logan M]

I understood what you said, but you seem to be basing your opinion on how they would do in a prime vs prime fight on Jones fighting a Shogun with bad knees that got rocked immediately. Otherwise you wouldn't say "Shogun at his best was never as good as Jon Jones at his best. And it’s honestly not close. Like at all, we’re talking different classes."

No, he's saying that because he believes it to be true and so do many people who understand the sport myself included. You need to take off the nostalgia goggles if you think Shogun is as good as Jones. I'm a huge Shogun fan and don't really like Jones but I can't deny how good Jones is. He has the advantage over Shogun in literally every aspect of MMA save power.

 

[AssassinFacedBaby]

Most of their top HWs and 205ers for sure, LHW and HW sucks now. Their best LWs would do well at LW too but I don't think any of them would win the title and LW has actually improved overall since 2007 while LHW and HW have regressed overall.

HWs: Fedor, Big Nog, Werdum, Aleksander, Cro Cop, Barnett, Sergei, Overeem, Coleman, Fujita, Schlit(last 3 wouldn't do as well)

LHW: Wanderlei, Shogun, Lil Nog, Arona, Overeem, Rampage, Igor, Henderson, Randleman

MW: Henderson, Kang, Misaki, Sakuraba, Ninja, Filho, Bustamante, Akiyama

LW: Gomi, Sakurai, Kawajiri, Hansen, Azeredo, Edwards, Aoki, JZ(not pride but he mostly fought in Japan)

I'm sure there's more i'm forgetting that would be competitive with the top 20 or better.

Edit: since TS said all JMMA I have added some from the 2002-2007 era.

Remind me who is JZ

 

[beastman]

Remind me who is JZ

http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Gesias-Cavalcante-9771

Dis guy. He had some serious speed and was explosive. Then he took a bump up in competition, dealt with some injuries and it went downhill.

 

[ryun253]

Prime Tim Sylvia would be able to compete in todays Heavyweight division. LOL

 

[Drugstore Cowboy]

Johnny Walker would demolish any Pride MW, LHW or HW in his prime.

 

[Summoning]

Bob Sapp
LA Giant
Zuluzinho
Sentoryu
Giant Silva

Better that Ncannou and Lewis for sure.

 

[Stevanchez]

Current Werdum is a more diverse striker and despite running straight into Stipe’s right he has better defense.

Or at least he had better defense until recently, I think he’s fallen off pretty badly in the past two years.
People will disagree also, but I think he’s a better more completely grappler than Nog. He’s got a better pedigree, and I think his grappling game has done nothing but improve as of late.

I also think he’s a better athlete and I think he’s significantly bigger? I might be wrong on that and I don’t want to look it up

In his second UFC stint, Werdum's striking definitely improved (although many overblow how good it is) and, with his kicks and knees, he is a more versatile striker than Nog. But in terms of boxing, his hands are very rudimentary, relying on his length by utilizing mostly jabs, straights, and flurries. I disagree when it comes to defense because Werdum gets hit a lot. Even in the fights he was winning or doing well standing(Browne, Cain, Hunt, Overeem, Tybura, etc.), he was either outstruck or matched in terms of punches landed. He was just able to land the harder strikes. Even against Zombie Nog, he was outlanded standing.

I agree that Werdum's BJJ(specifically his guard) is better, but then there are very few, in all of MMA, as decorated as Werdum. But still, what I was saying is they are comparable. As in, if Werdum is a 10 then prime Nog is a 9. I would also argue that, although Werdum's defensive grappling(off his back) and submissions are better, his offensive grappling is not. Werdum's TDs are awful and his top control is not great, whereas prime Nog had very good TDs and great top control. Which is why he was able to largely win their grappling exchanges in their first match(Werdum's ground game was just as elite back then).

As for the size:
WERDUM:
Height = 6'4"
Reach = 77"
Lowest Weigh-in = 228lbs
Highest Weigh-in = 256lbs(JDS fight, only time he weighed-in higher than 249lbs)
Avg. Career Weigh-in = 240lbs

NOGUEIRA:
Height = 6'3"
Reach = 77"
Lowest Weigh-in = 227lbs
Highest Weigh-in = 246lbs
Avg. Career Weigh-in = 239lbs
(This only includes the weigh-in results I could find, not all their fights)

 

[Vespo]

Every time I read about Pride and the old days, I can only think of one man...

 

[gono btw]

Current Werdum is a more diverse striker and despite running straight into Stipe’s right he has better defense.

Or at least he had better defense until recently, I think he’s fallen off pretty badly in the past two years.
People will disagree also, but I think he’s a better more completely grappler than Nog. He’s got a better pedigree, and I think his grappling game has done nothing but improve as of late.

I also think he’s a better athlete and I think he’s significantly bigger? I might be wrong on that and I don’t want to look it up

It´s a myth...

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...t-3-the-evolution-of-werdum´s-career.3831261/