What PRIDE fighters in their prime could compete in todays game?

[Threetrees]

I understood what you said, but you seem to be basing your opinion on how they would do in a prime vs prime fight on Jones fighting a Shogun with bad knees that got rocked immediately. Otherwise you wouldn't say "Shogun at his best was never as good as Jon Jones at his best. And it’s honestly not close. Like at all, we’re talking different classes."

So you know who know what I was basing my opinion on?

Me.

Because it’s my opinion.

 

[jmsmma170]

sakuraba

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

So you know who know what I was basing my opinion on?

Me.

Because it’s my opinion.

I understand it is your opinion but it's not an opinion most people that watched MMA a lot back in 2004-2007 would have, same with your opinion on JMMA being inferior to USMMA at the time Pride was around. No one that watched MMA back then would share your opinion on JMMA being worse than USMMA between 2001-2007. I find it hard to take your opinion on fighters in that era seriously based on your opinions of MMA in that era.

 

[Threetrees]

I understand it is your opinion but it's not an opinion most people that watched MMA a lot back in 2004-2007 would have, same with your opinion on JMMA being inferior to USMMA at the time Pride was around. No one that watched MMA back then would share your opinion on JMMA being worse than USMMA between 2001-2007.

I don’t think the first statement is true.

The JMMA point is completely separate as a whole.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

I don’t think the first statement is true.

The JMMA point is completely separate as a whole.

No, it isn't, if you are so far of base on where the better MMA fighters were then how can anyone trust your opinion on the skills of each individual fighter if you can't see that Pride clearly had more top talent than the UFC did?

That completely throws into question your ability to evaluate MMA fighters.

 

[Threetrees]

No, it isn't, if you are so far of base on where the better MMA fighters were then how can anyone trust your opinion on the skills of each individual fighter if you can't see that Pride clearly had more top talent than the UFC did?

In my thread I implied that Pride had more top talent in the heaviest weight classes.

For reference I don’t think any HW or LHWs from the UFC from the same era could compete today.

Except maybe AA.

So again, no. Separate points.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

In my thread I implied that Pride had more top talent in the heaviest weight classes.

For reference I don’t think any HW or LHWs from the UFC from the same era could compete today.

Except maybe AA.

So again, no. Separate points.

No, not separate points, Pride had more talent in every division other than 170 which they didn't have. 185 was close but Pride had more depth there too.

If you cannot see that and made a thread stating UFC had more talent when they clearly did not then it throws your judgement into question especially on any fighter during that era.

 

[Threetrees]

No, not separate points, Pride had more talent in every division other than 170 which they didn't have. 185 was close but Pride had more depth there too.

If you cannot see that and made a thread stating UFC had more talent when they clearly did not then it throws your judgement into question.

You’re not even talking about the point at hand anymore.

 

[Lay N Pray 101]

Lmfao at people saying Bob Sapp. Sapp can't make the 265lbs weight limit.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

You’re not even talking about the point at hand anymore.

We haven't been for a while. But your opinion on Pride being inferior to the UFC(when both were around) makes me question all of your opinions on MMA especially during the 2001-2007 era. If you can be wrong on something so obvious what else can you be wrong about?

 

[Threetrees]

We haven't been for a while. But your opinion on Pride being inferior to the UFC makes me question all of your opinions on MMA especially during the 2001-2007 era.

So tell me which of hte opinions espoused in this actual thread are off base.
At HW I took the best athletes to compete, and I conceded (to you) that many of your picks could compete in the top 20.
At LHW I think multiple PRIDE fighters and zero UFC fighters from that era could compete, and acknowledge how weak the LHW division is. However I think that DC and Jon Jones, considered by most to be the two best LHWs ever, are better than the field by a large margin.
I said that the LW divisions have progressed more than the HW divisions and I don’t think that many LWs from the old eras could compete, though I acknowledged that top 20 is a different metric than I was using.

So you seem to take issue with me thinking that Jon Jones is a much better fighter than Shogun. Which I stated was my subjective opinion and invited you to have your own.

 

[Gregolian]

The versions of Nog, Cro Cop, Fedor from around 2002 or so probably could.

They wouldn't be top tier winning belts but they'd be like the way Okami and Fitch were... beat fucking everyone but the champs.

 

[Amerikuracana]

Should probably ask the reverse..

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

So tell me which of hte opinions espoused in this actual thread are off base.
At HW I took the best athletes to compete, and I conceded (to you) that many of your picks could compete in the top 20.
At LHW I think multiple PRIDE fighters and zero UFC fighters from that era could compete, and acknowledge how weak the LHW division is. However I think that DC and Jon Jones, considered by most to be the two best LHWs ever, are better than the field by a large margin.
I said that the LW divisions have progressed more than the HW divisions and I don’t think that many LWs from the old eras could compete, though I acknowledged that top 20 is a different metric than I was using.

So you seem to take issue with me thinking that Jon Jones is a much better fighter than Shogun. Which I stated was my subjective opinion and invited you to have your own.

Prime Shogun not being even close to as good as Jones, he's the 3rd best 205er all time and destroyed other top 205ers in their primes rather than past their primes.

 

[Threetrees]

Prime Shogun not being even close to as good as Jones, he's probably the 3rd best 205er all time and destroyed other top 205ers in their primes rather than past their primes.

Okay so you take issue with exactly one point - which I acknowledge is subjective, but somehow you don’t, and your argument is based on historical context not actual fighting skills, which is a fine way of looking at it.
But somehow the entire thread is an example of suspect judgement.

I see.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Okay so you take issue with exactly one point - which I acknowledge is subjective, but somehow you don’t, and your argument is based on historical context not actual fighting skills, which is a fine way of looking at it.
But somehow the entire thread is an example of suspect judgement.

I see.

I question your opinions on JMMA between 2000-2007, not because of something you posted in here but because you had the opinion that JMMA was very overrated during a time when the vast majority of the best MMA fighters were in Japan. That's just a really dumb opinion to have, JMMA was at it's peak between 2000-2007ish.

 

[Threetrees]

I question your opinions on JMMA between 2000-2007, not because of something you posted in here but because you had the opinion that JMMA was very overrated during a time when the vast majority of the best MMA fighters were in Japan. That's just a really dumb opinion to have, JMMA was at it's peak between 2000-2007ish.

Saying something is overrated is not a statement that implies something is bad.

Something could be near perfect but still overrated.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Saying something is overrated is not a statement that implies something is bad.

Something could be near perfect but still overrated.

Saying something is very overrated at it's all time peak is pretty dumb.

 

[Threetrees]

Saying something is very overrated at it's all time peak is a stupid thing to say.

No.
Even though you disagree with the opinion, you’re bowing out of the conversation by not acknowledging the definition of the term overrated.

We were having a good discussion about Shogun, which is a shame.

Maybe we can have an amicable talk in another thread on another topic. I seem to have struck a nerve somewhere

 

[Greco_Wiz]

Ridiculous question really. Pride fighters in their “primes” were on insane amounts of PEDs. It’s comparing apples to oranges.