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What martial art do military combatives employ

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Jspahn, Mar 10, 2017.

  1. Jspahn White Belt

    Jspahn
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    My father was an army ranger and took the combative class and has been teaching the same stuff to me for 5 years. So yesterday i asked him what martial arts they used in the classes and his response was he didn't really know. but he did tell me Judo and BJJ were included. So if anyone has any info on it please tell me.
     
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  2. TroldeAnsigt White Belt

    TroldeAnsigt
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    I am not entirely sure, but don't they have their own system?
    It also depends a lot where you are on the world. Each country has their own set of moves they employ.

    Modern military hand to hand combat is sort of redundant though.
    With everyone having, automatic rifles, pistols and knives, you rarely have to choke someone out.
     
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  3. TheMood Blue Belt

    TheMood
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    #3
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  4. ziggyholiday White Belt

    ziggyholiday
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    Crappling, they employ Crappling.

    No Sambo, because they don't allow any leg attacks, No Judo or Wrestling because most units never allow take down training and sparring will usually start from the knees. Combatives competitions start standing up, standard rules is basically BJJ with no leg attacks and no wrists locks. If the competition has further rounds then there will be a Pancrase rules where it's BJJ with open hand strikes to the face, closed strikes and kicks to the body. The final round is basically MMA with the unified rules but I imagine there are some tweaks now.

    I've never seen striking training done at the unit level, typically only taught at the Master level (formally Combatives level III and IV).

    It's basically bad BJJ. They send people to a 40 hour course and they are "instructors" and most of them have never done any type of combat sport training ever.

    It's what got me into BJJ though, so I don't hate it, and when I teach it's basically a BJJ fundamentals class. Though there is a lot of me saying "Army Doctrine says this....but here is the right of doing it."
     
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  5. Uchi Mata Gold Belt

    Uchi Mata
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    In America, it depends on the branch. Army combatives are not the same as Marine's MCMAP. Mostly they're general purpose self defense stuff, a little bit of grappling, a little bit of striking, mostly close range.
     
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  6. BCNASH Blue Belt

    BCNASH
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    They basically steal techniques that will work while wearing 20-30 lbs of body armor, and the rest is knife, bayonet and improvised weapons techniques. Also very minimal controlling techniques. I am an instructor in MCMAP (the Marines combatives programs) and the emphasis is to kill the other person as efficiently as possible so you can move onto the next guy on the battlefield. If you have to employ any unarmed techniques you are either detaining a bad guy/suspect or you have a serious problem because you have already gone through 220 ish rounds of ammunition and you have to resort to hand to hand combat
     
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  7. MadSquabbles500 Gold Belt

    MadSquabbles500
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    Instead of teaching empty hand, why not just train them knife fighting, if there is such a thing? They are already carrying a survival/combat knife right? A person with knife is more dangerous than even Conor McGregor with just his hands.
     
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  8. vcmmafan Dark Knight Returns

    vcmmafan
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    I consider MCMAP garbage. It's so shitty. (The Army's version is not much better, either.) Still, some Marines swear by it... The only marines I know that are proficient at fighting are the ones that trained arts as civilians back in the day. Lol @ people saying it's more effective in life in death situations vs sport. You could become a "black belt" in the US Military's martial arts in half a year (assuming you have the time). That should say it all.

    We do BJJ sometimes for PT because our CO loves BJJ

    Delta and SEALs have been training with Gracies, but I don't know the extend of that. I doubt they have much time to devote to getting a black belt.

    I hate the military superman myth.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
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  9. Grappler111 Blue Belt

    Grappler111
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    Italy and Ukraine have Pankration.
     
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  10. yetanother Purple Belt

    yetanother
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    For restraining unarmed civilians?
     
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  11. ziggyholiday White Belt

    ziggyholiday
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    One thing about the US Army and their Combatives training, they use to try and get all of the details from recorded H2H encounters over the past decade to try and get "lessons learned" from it. So, there are instances out there where front line guys were getting involved in encounters. I'm sure it's not been super common but it happens. Plus as combatives has progressed as a program, they have started to place emphasis on being in a situation where you didn't have your weapon ready and using H2H techniques to get to that point. ie, You're detaining someone, they start resisting and possibly go for your rifle, you use grappling to control the situation, get to a dominate position (or range distance) and pull your secondary weapon.

    When I first got instructor certified, it was all done without body armor etc. Years later when I did the next level we ended up doing rounds in our full kit (body armor helmet) and threw in strikes as well.

    It's still crappling, but I liked that aspect of it.
     
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  12. Bayonet Blue Belt

    Bayonet
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    Most of what i've seen is a mish-mash of (fairly sloppy) Judo, Wrestling, BJJ, Muay Thai, Boxing combined with the standard dirty tricks. It's not great.

    It's sub par when compared to any serious training in a fighting sport, but good enough for what it's meant for; training the individual soldier to have a combative mindset, and giving him the unarmed tools necessary to buy his comrades time to get their weapons into play.
     
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  13. BCNASH Blue Belt

    BCNASH
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    You also have to understand there is a difference between sport fighting and life or death situations. How many people train headbutts, deliberate strikes to the back of the head or neck, stomps to a grounded opponent, etc...

    It gets looked down on a lot, but it is not meant to be compared to MMA. It is supposed to get you in the mindset along the lines of "him and I both have a knife, how do I kill him in the most efficient way while also not getting stabbed or cut bad enough to die?" Nobody is going to consider training for a prison guard comparable to the local MMA gym but Ill bet your local MMA fighter has a much tougher time dealing with a guy with a shank than the prison guard does. That is the mindset you have to look at the combatives/MCMAP training from, not "how would this guy do against Donald Cerrone?"
     
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  14. MadSquabbles500 Gold Belt

    MadSquabbles500
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    I thought they needed to know who to kill the enemy.
     
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  15. MadSquabbles500 Gold Belt

    MadSquabbles500
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    But if you dont have either your rifle or your handgun, and did not have the space or time to get it ready, you should still have a combat knife on you right? That needs no time to get ready. You can only really be so effective when restraining anyone or defending yourself unless you have a way to hurt them very badly, and force them to comply.
     
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  16. JosephDredd Silver Belt

    JosephDredd
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    i was with you until this.
     
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  17. imarayda Green Belt

    imarayda
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    garbage. In the marine corps anyways, mcmap is complete garbage.
     
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  18. imarayda Green Belt

    imarayda
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    On top of being garbage they aren't trained with any kind of consistency(in the marine corps anyways). I went to a course for a few weeks to get a belt promotion, than never ever trained the moves again until the next time I went to another course for my next belt promotion. A 6 month white belt will ball up most marines btw
     
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  19. rmongler Brown Belt

    rmongler
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    Bureaucrat-Do-Te.

    Ie, whatever the latest martial arts craze some pencil pushers in TRADOC have become enamored with and think is the deadliest shit ever, thus mandating everyone update the field manual and start doing that instead.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
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  20. MadSquabbles500 Gold Belt

    MadSquabbles500
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    I am assuming prison guards do get training. Now why shouldnt they be more proficient at dealing with shivs? Am MMA fighters worries more about his ruleset. Single legs, butterfly sweeps probably wont look like people are used to if the other guys has a shiv. I dont even know if strikes will work unless they are to the groin or eye pokes. If I have shiv, and someone throws a cross at my face, I just stab at the same time to his face. Lets see who comes out on top, or if the guy covers up classic boxing style, I just slash at the forearms.
     
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