What is a chin made of?

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by frango, Feb 13, 2018.

  1. frango

    frango Blue Belt

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    We see many fighters eating punches early on their careers and after many years suddenly comes a time when just one punch is enough to make them sleep.

    People often say "his chin is not the same" or "he used to have good chin" or even "now that he lost his chin".

    On the other hand it is commom to see in street fights people who supposedly never have trained being punched in the head getting KO and even fucking dying

    So...what makes a chin? It is training? Is it a gift? You must get hit often in the head so you dont get KOut easily?
    And if you continue to get sistematicaly hit there comes a day when you will lose all your ability to take punches?

    How does this logic work? Whats the science behind it? Because we have seen this happen to so many fighters...

    and what type of conditioning is required besides sparring (aka taking punches in the head)? Neck development? Traps?

    can anyone shed a light on this topic?
     
  2. j123

    j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

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  3. jojoRed

    jojoRed Purple Belt

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    Living in the future, so the present is my past.
    A chin is made of bone, the jaw bone is attached to the skull via muscle tissue, and all of this is enclosed in skin.

    How can I improve my ability to not get hurt when I take a punch on the chin? Get better defence, and build the traps to allow for better dissipation of energy.
     
  4. frango

    frango Blue Belt

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    ok, no one knows...
     
  5. Silver tongue samurai

    Silver tongue samurai Ronin

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    Its a gift that can be taken away. You can have a chin but do not know until you need it or you can use it and sooner or later it will be taken away
     
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  6. j123

    j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

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    Not if you keep on bangin'. Bangin' chins are the gifts that keeps on giving
     
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  7. fluffball

    fluffball Brown Belt

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    As far as I understand it from talking to medical professionals, we don't understand what "being conscious" is enough to really explain what I assume you're looking for.

    The simple, obvious answer is your brain gets battered when it bounces off your skull, and smashing any body part or machine hard enough is going to make it fail in one way or another. We can make a non-scientific-but-common-sense guess that people with tough chins that have had their brain battered around eventually just take too much damage to not go out.

    Every one has different genetics and bodies and it would probably be nearly impossible to identity every little detail that goes into having a durable brain. But neck muscles, experience moving with punches, and -- to at least some extent -- will power are what you can affect.

    If you really care you might be able to find some more in-depth info in things like the archives of the New England Journal of Medicine at the library. But I have tried to read medical journals quite a bit and they are nearly impossible to understand. They often have a summary at the end of an article though.


    Edit for another thought: Past the extremely obvious "if you smash something it will malfunction", I don't know how much there is for a non-neuroscientist to learn about this. It reminds me of Richard Feynman berating the interviewer who asked him how magnets work. The summary is basically "look I can explain it to you, but it doesn't mean anything to you because you're not a physicist. You're just going to have to trust me that magnets stick together unless you want to spend 8 years studying the subject." You can repeat all the electromagetism words and what not, but how is saying that any more clear than "magnets stick"? Brain smashed = brain not work.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
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  8. beginner555

    beginner555 White Belt

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    A study I read showed neck strength/size was inversely correlated with chance of concussion in athletes
    I would imagine that's one of the biggest factors
     
  9. shincheckin

    shincheckin Purple Belt

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    theres no magic here. A chin is a chin. Its human anatomy. I forget the whole science behind it, but basically, anyone hit clean on the chin will get KO'd. Lets take for comparison this. lets say the human femur can hold 1500 lbs of pressure. well if you put 1600 lbs of pressure on it, it will break. If you hit someone clean on the chin, they will get KO'd. Generally speaking.

    Now the ability to take shots and keep pushing is something that can be learned. Its really just a mental toughness IMO. I dont believe you can condition your chin, in the same manner you can condition your shins. something about what the jaw bone is connected to blah blah blah, once it gets rocked, it KO's you.
     
  10. JSnake

    JSnake Purple Belt

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    The "chin" essentially has to do with the condition of the nervous system as opposed to the anatomical part in itself. A bigger chin/neck does not necessarily mean that a person can take a shot better (Bodybuilders can actually be more prone to getting KOed simply because they tend to be overly tense).

    It's the underlying apparatus that's important; not what's on the surface/can be seen. Since the energy/force delivered through the strike is not visible to the naked eye, it puts into perspective how this energy travels through invisible pathways in the body. Where to take a strike effectively, that energy needs to be transferred to the base of your feet so it can be grounded, rather than getting stuck within the body's tissues and causing damage. How clear these pathways are and the efficiency of this mechanism are what it comes down to.

    Genetics obviously plays a part in that, determining your mobility and the flow of energy. But your mind/awareness is also a big factor, since we can guide energy with the right technique, coordinated with your breathing. Similar to how when throwing a punch, your body should be loose and only tensed at the point of impact; the same goes for taking a shot. This allows for the energy to flow freely, and not get constricted to these areas of the body/penetrate to the deeper tissues within.

    This is an unconscious process governed by instinct out of self-preservation, it happens without you having to even think (as seen with the flinch reflex to an incoming attack). A trained fighter will just have it refined and their nervous system conditioned to a much higher level than the average person. When you don't see the attack coming, your body can not instinctively react to it well and therefore this process is hindered.

    As you get older, your flow of energy is not as strong, your body is not as fluid (it becomes stiff), your physical constitution starts to collapse, and so the body's energy is directed more inwards towards its rejuvenation. That means less energy put towards protecting the body on its surface, energy from an attack can then more easily penetrate inside to the organs like the brain, and with the decreased flow in these energetic pathways, recovery will not be as efficient. The more damage you take throughout your life creates tension within the body and can speed up the aging process, as the body then has to direct its energy/resources for repair.

    For training, it's more mental than physical, in my view. As it deals with the nervous system and instinct, overthinking/being too conscious of this action may actually interrupt the process. Sharpening your reflexes/awareness, staying relaxed and loose, learning self-control over your whole body/breathing/emotions, keeping to your center of gravity, can help aid this process so that it functions naturally and optimally.
     
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  11. rmongler

    rmongler Brown Belt

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    The error here is in thinking that people are only abstract 'blank slates' rather than real objects instantiated with certain characteristics, that can differentiate from one or another.

    When it comes to resilience in combat sports i'd say there is a great degree of 'preselection' in effect; the guys who take hits hard, who get injured more easily, who don't recover as quickly, for one reason or another you won't see them in high level competition, being winnowed out before then.

    Whether it's because they decide trying to focus their life on fighting full time isn't for them due to how dinged up they get, or because they do focus but can't train as extensively as higher competition for the same reasons, or because they simply can't put together consistent win streaks consistently enough to make the big times and stay there, because when you take hits harder 'punchers luck' is always on your opponents side.

    I've seen very talented fighters, perennial contenders, who have been 'chinny'... but i've never seen a guy who can win a world championship and defend it at least once who did not also have the ability to recover well from getting rocked.

    Sometimes a fighter will miss a step, or the opponent make a good read, or both fighters make a decision simultaneously and end up in a car crash. Dominant fighting strategy is about minimizing the role of chance by maximizing control you have over the opponent, but even the best fighters can find themselves in situations like this at one point or another, and when they do, having the 'insurance policy' of being able to recover from a hard shot can be the difference between going down as an all time great or down as 'merely' a noted contender.
     
  12. LastingEffect

    LastingEffect What greater gift than the love of a cat

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    You can't condition your chin.
     
  13. Chesten_Hesten

    Chesten_Hesten The Wiener of Steel

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    Chinbone
    [​IMG]
     
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  14. j123

    j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

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    Yes you can

     
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  15. tekkenfan

    tekkenfan Purple Belt

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    sunshine and farts
     
  16. fluffball

    fluffball Brown Belt

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    Out of curiosity I googled that image and his condition, Cherubism, is caused by a lack of jawbone, replaced by fibrous tissue.
     
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  17. LastingEffect

    LastingEffect What greater gift than the love of a cat

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    They are destroying chins.
     
  18. shincheckin

    shincheckin Purple Belt

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    butt chin conditioning is shitty! everytime they get hit in the chin, they fart.


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  19. j123

    j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

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    Dat Faber chin
     
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  20. shincheckin

    shincheckin Purple Belt

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    this is heart, not chin.

     

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