What happened to Sugar Ray Robinson in the Mayweather Jr GOAT discussion?

Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by spacetime, Jan 10, 2018.

  1. proncley

    proncley Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card Yellow Card Banned

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    There's always light and shade.
    Not too many boxers were able to win world titles at 8 different weight classes...so far only one has been able to do it, which tells me that the number of weight classes is just fine.

    I agree that the different world titles are confusing, but they also enable unfication bouts which are always special.
    Like Golovkin vs. BJS ... a year ago Saunders was just another title holder, as he kept winning people started to believe that he can actually defeat Golovkin, especially considering that GGG has looked mortal und vulnerable lately. As of right now him vs. BJS is a legitimate unification match at world class level.

    Same thing with AJ vs. Wilder ... people look at both of them as legitimate world champions and want to see the unification.
     
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  2. deathstalker

    deathstalker Blue Belt

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  3. moosaev

    moosaev Green Belt

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    "Beat" works too. You just have no clue about boxing history.
     
  4. spacetime

    spacetime Black Belt

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  5. proncley

    proncley Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card Yellow Card Banned

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    [​IMG]
     
  6. deathstalker

    deathstalker Blue Belt

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  7. spacetime

    spacetime Black Belt

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    Roberto Duran seems to be a fan favourite. He is way overestimated in in these lists in my opinion. He would have never beaten Sugar Ray Leonard, if Leonard didn't go in there and tried to beat Duran with his own game (slugging away) just to prove a point. I'd have him beating Duran 99 times out of 100 with normal strategies.
     
  8. Seano

    Seano Hands of bone

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    Canelo has a pretty good resume and is in his prime. His resume compares fine with other greats at similar points in their careers.
     
  9. spacetime

    spacetime Black Belt

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    He got absolutely dominated by GGG for about half the fight. Should'nt he at least be competitive in such encounters to be an all-time great?
     
  10. Dr. Will

    Dr. Will Yellow Belt

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    Duran wasn't motivated to go out of his way to train and beat someone he's already beaten before, like Tyson Fury after beating Wladimir. Duran lost 50lbs in such a short period of time and just couldn't pull the trigger in the rematch, all for the paycheck.
    Also, best not to forget Duran was at his best as a Lightweight and had already had amassed a long 71-1 record before, and although he transitioned up to Welterweight well, he was still a small guy. SRL's prime was at 147, conversely - 2 whole weight divisions above SRL. Nothing wrong with losing to SRL, someone who is probably best argued as being the 'best ever' himself.
     
  11. Seano

    Seano Hands of bone

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    I didn't see anyone get dominated in that fight.
     
  12. moosaev

    moosaev Green Belt

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    You're assuming that because they fought 3 times a month, most of those guys must've been cans. Some of them were, but the depth of talent meant a lot of them were very good fighters. And activity matters in the sense that it gave the old timers an exponentially larger reservoir of knowledge so that title fights or fights between top contenders were fights of supreme skill. Contrast that to the Mayweather era, where 70% of title fights were/are complete jokes. Ray Beltran is getting ready to fight Paulus Moses for a title next month. Thats the type of trash we have holding titles these days. And Mayweather gets to brag about being in X number of title fights against that level of opposition.
     
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  13. Hagler

    Hagler Man of wealth and taste

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    Boxing nostalgia does exist. So does overrating current fighters.
     
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  14. moosaev

    moosaev Green Belt

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    The difference is the folks that spew nostalgia actually know about the different eras and are better equipped to make a comparative assessment. Whereas most of the folks who poo poo the old timers and overrate current fighters don't know shit about boxing history since that would require actually picking up a book because you won't find that info on twitter or boxingscene.
     
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  15. spacetime

    spacetime Black Belt

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    Canelo was dominated without getting killed, which is just as bad, if not worse.
     
  16. Hagler

    Hagler Man of wealth and taste

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    Eh, he pretty much won the beginning and the end of the fight, which is hardly getting dominated.
     
  17. spacetime

    spacetime Black Belt

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    That's not how I saw it. I saw a guy win 3 rounds of solid boxing, then get schooled.
     
  18. Hagler

    Hagler Man of wealth and taste

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    You didn't see any difference between rounds 4-9 and rounds 10-12 ?
     
  19. Seano

    Seano Hands of bone

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    I rate Robinson over Floyd but there is a TON of filler on Robinsons record. If Floyd Mayweather fought guys like those today, people would laugh at him.
     
  20. wilddeuces

    wilddeuces Brown Belt

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    It's not in the discussion because it is assumed knowledge: SRR is above Floyd Mayweather for pretty much every conceivable reason. Number of HoFer's he fought when they were in or damn close to their prime. Number of times he took tough fights he didn't have to. Longevity. Surpasses Mayweather's unbeaten streak, and only suffered a loss because he wasn't carefully matched.

    Over all the years he fought, only two names really stand out as guys he could have fought: Burley and Zale come to mind.

    There's one guy I would rank above him if I had footage on him and that is Harry Greb. But, since no footage has survived, I just can't do it. Plus I might be a bit subjective there. From a very objective standpoint, I have to rank SRR is at the top of the P4P or ATG lists even though several of his opponents I have a subjective preference for.

    SRR just belongs.
     

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