What does "Prime" really mean...

Apocalypse604

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I mean...i hear people saying so and so is past their prime cause they got old a lot, but is that how we define who truly is and is not prime? I mean Floyd fought into his late 30s and was still dominating....finished undefeated....bernard was dismantling people as an "old man".....so what constitutes "prime"? When did Ali reach and then leave his prime?? Some would say suspension robbed him of his prime. Was RJJ still in his prime when he fought tarver....or did the weight cut from HW zap his prime away....
 
Yeah that can be tough to say especially for the undefeated and barely defeated ones

But for me it is when someone is/was at the absolute pinnacle of their own potential. Of course it is not an exact science and opinions will vary

Take Pacquiao.. the guy is still fucking good but i would say we have already seen the best version of him
 
when physical attritubes diminish ...usually it starts with a deterioration of the legs / mobility, then a reduction of the workrate / punch frequency, loss of speed / reflexes, loss of the ability to execute athletic moves you could do in the past (like Floyd's pull counter). Sometimes a loss of aggression / courage occurs ...you could see that with Ronda Rousey recently. While she never was much of a standup fighter, she could mask it with her aggression and courage.
 
Your mom is prime

@Canelo, what do we do with this guy? How about we sit down with his wife and figure out a solution? How about we buy him new underwear? He's been wearing the same since two years now.
 
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@Canelo, what do we do with this guy? How about we sit down with his wife and figure out a solution? How about we buy him new buy him new underwear? He's been wearing the same since two years now.
Bringing your boyfriend into arguments doesn't make you tough. I'm about to put you on ignore as you're a classic alt, bye bye dickface.
 
Bringing your boyfriend into arguments doesn't make you tough. I'm about to put you on ignore as you're a classic alt, bye bye dickface.

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Physical prime is usually mid 20s, mental prime probably mid 30s. Somewhere btw the two as a rule I'd guess. Of course there are anomalies, Tyson was a teenage phenom and Hopkins was extremely whiley into his 40s.
 
I say the term "prime" is used retrospectively. I think you can look back at a fighter's career and point out an area of time when they performed the best. I think some people refer to the Tyson that defeated Michael Spinks as "Prime Tyson".
 
The way it is supposed to be used is to denote a fighter during the period when they were at their best, generally during the first part of a championship run while they have all of their physical gifts and enough experience from fighting their way through the ranks.

The way it is usually thrown around, however, is to denote the period before a favorite fighter lost a fight that someone thought they shouldn't loose--such as Pacquiao losing to Marquez or Jones losing to Tarver of Tyson losing to Douglas. How they performed prior to that fight, what the odds were going into those fights and the physical age and abilities are somewhat disregarded. The idea is that the "prime" fighter was unbeatable and so, by definition, when they lose that means they are not in their prime.
 
I mean...i hear people saying so and so is past their prime cause they got old a lot, but is that how we define who truly is and is not prime? I mean Floyd fought into his late 30s and was still dominating....finished undefeated....bernard was dismantling people as an "old man".....so what constitutes "prime"? When did Ali reach and then leave his prime?? Some would say suspension robbed him of his prime. Was RJJ still in his prime when he fought tarver....or did the weight cut from HW zap his prime away....
Floyd when he fought Judah, Bernard when he fought Tito, Ali when he was banned, Jones when he fought Toney.
 
depends on the fighter but generally, on average for all divisions, 27 has always been the number that I heard. Lighter weights generally prime sooner and heavyweights later. Todays fighters have turned convention on it's head. Fighters the age of Pac, Mayweather, Ward etc.., etc.., all are at or way past the age where even great fighters had to to struggle or took ass whuppings from lesser fighters. It's true that knowledge and experience continue but the physical decline has generally been considered to be well underway by 30. So, the experience eventually cannot outweigh the loss in reflexes, in endurance, in durability in speed. I've heard so many fighters, Ali and Alexis Arguello were eloquent about how they said it, that their experience made them better, but it wasn't true. Even when you know what to do it doesn't do any good if you can't execute.

One more thing, I think "Prime" means different things, often times, maybe most times, fighters peaks do not correlate to when they get their defining battles and also they aren't always at their peak popularity. Ali was a very unpopular champion in the sixties but he never had greater abilities, he also didn't have the defining opponents so, physically, he was never better than he was in the 60's. In the seventies, he lost his legs but he still beat better fighters and he was more popular. so, in terms of popularity and accomplishment, you'd have to say 75 was his prime in those areas. Hagler was popular after Hearns but he was slowing down drastically by then, he was losing his hand speed way before those years but he was still improving in so many other areas. Lots of examples of what I'm talking about.
 
also, age "has nothing to do with it" according to eddie futch. the 27 year given is just a benchmark but every fighter i different. I still recall Wilfredo Benitez struggling to beat normal contenders at age 26, well, he'd won his first title at 17 and had all of his big wins before 27. Some people say Camacho was washed up at 25. Just humans being different and also, one good tough fight can finish a fighter at any age, it's probably more mental than physical a lot of times but it could be physical too.
 
Some general observations on fighters peaking, from my own biased perspective:
- "sprinters" peak earlier than "distance runners"
- primarily offensive fighters peak earlier than primarily defensive fighters
- guys who get out of shape and/or make big weight cuts peak earlier than guys who stay near their fighting weight
- guys have been able to extend their "primes" by 5-10 years in the last generation, presumably by smarrt (and probably illegal) supplementation. There have been more 35-40 year old guys who are not only champions but physically imposing champions in the last fifteen years or so than ever before.
 
Some general observations on fighters peaking, from my own biased perspective:
- "sprinters" peak earlier than "distance runners"
- primarily offensive fighters peak earlier than primarily defensive fighters
- guys who get out of shape and/or make big weight cuts peak earlier than guys who stay near their fighting weight
- guys have been able to extend their "primes" by 5-10 years in the last generation, presumably by smarrt (and probably illegal) supplementation. There have been more 35-40 year old guys who are not only champions but physically imposing champions in the last fifteen years or so than ever before.

I'm certainly not disagreeing with you, nor am I mitigating just how much PEDs make a difference, but I'd like to see this really tracked and proven. There were more fighters than we think who fought into their late 30s and even 40s at the world level in past eras. There has actually been relatively little rise in older athletes in other sports in the PED era relative to older eras when the same conclusion you made was assumed to be correct (in international sports like hockey or soccer/football), for example. Some have argued in different sports that PEDs have led to earlier and earlier peaks. Hopkins, Mayweather, Pacquiao, and Marquez have lasted well, but how much is that to do with their quality (and poor quality of the next generation) than anything else? Again, these are interesting questions.
 
"In his prime" is where a fighter you dislike is when he gets beaten.

"Past his prime" is where a fighter you like is when he gets beaten.
 
"In his prime" is where a fighter you dislike is when he gets beaten.

"Past his prime" is where a fighter you like is when he gets beaten.

Yeah, a lot of times.
 
Some general observations on fighters peaking, from my own biased perspective:
- "sprinters" peak earlier than "distance runners"
- primarily offensive fighters peak earlier than primarily defensive fighters
- guys who get out of shape and/or make big weight cuts peak earlier than guys who stay near their fighting weight
- guys have been able to extend their "primes" by 5-10 years in the last generation, presumably by smarrt (and probably illegal) supplementation. There have been more 35-40 year old guys who are not only champions but physically imposing champions in the last fifteen years or so than ever before.
If you look at the results some of the mma guys got from testosterone replacement therapy and the lack of testing boxers had to deal with it's something that was very possibly being done. Hopefully PED testing is more strictly enforced in the future.
 
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Without the assistance of PED's.....

Physical prime is 20-30 years of age.

Pick up some boxing/any sports biography's and autobiographys or any sports book for further reference.
 
I mean...i hear people saying so and so is past their prime cause they got old a lot, but is that how we define who truly is and is not prime? I mean Floyd fought into his late 30s and was still dominating....finished undefeated....bernard was dismantling people as an "old man".....so what constitutes "prime"? When did Ali reach and then leave his prime?? Some would say suspension robbed him of his prime. Was RJJ still in his prime when he fought tarver....or did the weight cut from HW zap his prime away....

When one is at their physical / technical peak... In other words, the version of you that could beat all others. (MJ - Bulls era).
 
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