What do I need to have good MMA wrestling? For someone that never wrestled! (Like GSP

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by x100handslap**, Jul 29, 2013.

  1. SummerStriker

    SummerStriker Black Belt

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    If someone is a better wrestler than you, the only way you are going to win is to be a better striker and beat them up before they clinch with you.

    If you punch someone in the face twice beforehand, this throw will work better.
     
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  2. Saenchai

    Saenchai Purple Belt

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    [​IMG]

    MATT HAMILL For god sake got taken down by outside trip!

    This isn't about judovswrestling. this is what about WORKS. Ofc this shit don't fly in a wrestling match cause ya fools are BENT over with no fear of getting hit. same goes with bjj way of fighting.
     
  3. Dangrabbit**

    Dangrabbit** Orange Belt

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    Yeah but a guy like Jon Jones could do anything he wants with his long legs and such, especially to someone like matt hammil, the skill gap is large. A shot is way higher percentage than this McDojo dude's outside trip.
     
  4. Saenchai

    Saenchai Purple Belt

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    Well you clearly don't understand the clinch. They're both standing straight up, which gives them both a neutral position and 50% rate of success (in a perfect world sense but as you can already tell matt hamill too busy working on the body to even think about a outside trip). You probably don't know this but a counter to a outside trip such as the one jon jones done is EASILY reversible by doing the outside trip on jon jones reaping leg.

    I should stop replying to you. I wouldn't even listen to you for advice since you can't even take down an obese person. :icon_lol:
     
  5. Dangrabbit**

    Dangrabbit** Orange Belt

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    I understand the clinch quite well, I'm a wrestler myself. However, this is one example you have of this trip. Shots are much more common and effective. Sure, the trip could be pulled off, but it isn't very common. You'd never see that shit fly in division one wrestling.
     
  6. Saenchai

    Saenchai Purple Belt

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    You, yourself, the wrestler can't even pull it off!
    I wrestled in HS, and shit I couldn't do it. There was no point in trying to do it on a wrestler who is bent over and with no hip contact, theres no way I can hit a trip. I certainly am not gonna try to FORCE a wrestler to stand straight, thats just wasting energy and strength. But lets say we add strikes, you sure in hell will stand the fuck up. lol. btw this thread is about MMA wrestling (and what I mean by MMA wrestling, is just straight MMA take downs, again not FOLKstyle or Freestyle or Greco), not D1.
     
  7. Dangrabbit**

    Dangrabbit** Orange Belt

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    Yeah for MMA you could use outside trips quite well cause of upright. But bad for street fighting cause there is no fence to force the guy into a clinch he could just run away.
     
  8. Saenchai

    Saenchai Purple Belt

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    There are walls of a building, there is concrete, there is stds everywhere, theres shatter glass every where. A guy can run away without being shot on.

    There are plenty of fights where fighters clinch without the help of fence. And theres a WHOLE lot of fights where fighters shot for a leg off the fence.
     
  9. Einarr

    Einarr Banned Banned

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    Blast double, clinch, nogi grips. There's no reason that you can't develop a dominant top game from BJJ; just don't be a passive little bitch in training.
     
  10. Dangrabbit**

    Dangrabbit** Orange Belt

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    Shooting is superior to trips because it does not require a clinch and can be done from striking range so in the street if the guy doesn't wanna clinch and there is no wall you are screwed because trips won't work from the striking range
     
  11. Shemhazai

    Shemhazai Black Belt

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    LOL @ someone actively avoiding the clinch in a street fight. The only kind of street fight that may not end up in the clinch is the 'challenge match' type where two guys go toe-to-toe in a parking lot, i.e. the completely unnecessary and hopelessly juvenile kind. In almost every real self defense scenario, the aggressor (who, for the sake of argument, I'll assume you are not, because that would be stupid) is coming forward and closing the distance for you, more than likely trying to grab you as well.

    Also, most nightlife brawls happen in crowded clubs where there is hardly enough space to throw a proper punch, much less keep someone at jabbing range. In situations like these, (outside) trips are also way safer in terms of being able to remain standing, going to knee on belly or disengaging and getting away, as opposed to getting tangled up on the ground in a chaotic environment.

    As for the outside trip/osoto gari, it is not very common in wrestling due to the obvious issue of the crouching stance, but you can still hit it going across the body like a knee tap (instead of straight backwards), which Sergei Beloglazov, considered maybe the greatest freestyle wrestler of all time, used to do quite a bit. Believe it or not, there are other successful styles of wrestling in this world than U.S. folkstyle and shooting.
     
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  12. Dangrabbit**

    Dangrabbit** Orange Belt

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    Ok you can do all these stupid trips but it is still inferior to shooting. Thats why jordan burroughs has the gold medal. If I'm fighting a judo guy, I'll just back away and just shoot all day, and he can't do shit about it. Without a clinch judo is useless, and if the other guy knows whats up and backs away, it will be very hard to get a takedown if he shoots. If there was no fence in MMA clinch takedowns would be much less common.
    As you can see in these videos, the only takedowns landed occured off of a leg attack (it was the defensive guy who got the takedown, doesn't matter though) because there is nothing forcing the guys to clinch.
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    Last edited: Jul 30, 2013
  13. Bubblun

    Bubblun Brown Belt

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    that is a very interesting subject.

    i have seen Jon Trenge's wrestling videos and he said that high singles are the way to go for mma guys.
    doubles are dangerous because if the opponent sprawl, you end on bottom carrying his weight and eating punches.
    with the singles you aren't shooting, so you aren't at risk, if you can take the foot under your armpit or over the shoulder is a sure takedown 99% of the times, if you can't, just let the leg go and nothing happens, your opponent defended the takedown but you aren't in a bad position.


    honestly Chael is right, you don't see a lot of single leg in mma today.
    only one fight i have in my mind, the Carmont Larkin fight.
    Carmont was going for the single to tree top finish but Larkin is one of those "BJ Penn super flexible hips" guys so he was hopping on one lag like a balancer.
    eventually Carmont was able to take him down and thanks to that he won the fight.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2013
  14. Shemhazai

    Shemhazai Black Belt

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    Well, Buvaisar Saitiev has THREE gold medals, and he used mostly trips and throws from the clinch. (With some single legs for good measure.)

    I can't believe I'm writing this to a wrestler, but you do realize that judo/sambo style throws and trips are excellent counters to shots, right? Lots of freestyle wrestlers from the Caucasus (Saitiev being one) will stuff the single with a whizzer and hit uchi mata, inside and outside trips, the 'gadavlia' and 'obviv' (grapevine) throws from Georgian folk wrestling - just all sorts of nasty, clinch-based stuff.

    Now, you may say that this doesn't work against someone with a good shot, but Chechen wrestlers are still pulling it off in the Olympics (and frequently medaling).
     
  15. x100handslap**

    x100handslap** Orange Belt

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    This thread is getting more and more awesome with every post thanks a million guys its been very educational!
     
  16. shunyata

    shunyata Black Belt

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    I'm a little flabbergasted. Obviously, if you only compete in MMA events that take place in an empty soccer field, there will be less clinching with no walls / cage to lean on. What was the point of that? And is one of the fighters wearing flannel boxers as his shorts?
     
  17. Saenchai

    Saenchai Purple Belt

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    There no point in arguing with this idiot. He's trying to compare the two techniques that is from TWO different "levels". Comparing a leg attack to a freaking body clinch attack. But he's such an idiot, that he even understand one simple thing. I bet he thinks the Philly shell is the best defense posture for boxing. lol
     
  18. westfield

    westfield White Belt

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    DC was able to get the clinch without being against the cage.
     
  19. rmongler

    rmongler Brown Belt

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    You get the clinch without the cage when both guys don't mind clinching.
     
  20. westfield

    westfield White Belt

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    Actually Stipe was trying to avoid the clinch, which is how he got knocked out.

    DC got the clinch with a modified 1-2-3 combo. But instead of a left hook, he goes for a collar tie. Then he limp arms to an underhook.
     

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