Discussion in 'Weapons and Tactics' started by freaky, Nov 29, 2017.
I like Glock and Walther.
That mushy sound they use as the dude drags himself across the floor.... *shudders*
Until they short stroke it, flinch hard and send 00 buck through every wall in the house.
I kid, shotguns are good.
If I weren't in California, I'd agree this is probably as good as it gets. You cover all bases between power, capacity, manueverability, controllability, muzzle blast/flash, and over-penetration concerns.
As it is, no NFA for me.
What subsonic frangible 300 BO load do you speak of?
Lehigh is what my friend uses.
I'm a self admitted 1911 fanboy but:
Guy is a Master level shooter and I agree fully with his stance on it.
I didn't watch but if the argument is you bring a 1911 to a barbecue and a Glock to a gunfight, "I agree fully with his stance on it."
Ergo the target model 1911 recommendation. And a vote for a 20 gauge pump Mossie for HD.
Right on, I remember discussing this. I was curious because they do have a few different "controlled fracturing" loads in 168, 170, and 174 gr. but only the 174 cycles in an AR. They recommend the 194gr for AR pistols and SBRs. Either way, you're getting something good.
@freaky , don't mean to hijack your thread, but you'll need to also consider ammo choice... and there are no shortage of opinions out there. Do your research, pick a reputable brand, and stick with it.
I was planning to just get whatever is the cheapest reputable brand 9mm ammo out at the time of sale. Be it federal, nosler or remington it don't matter as long as it is a reputable brand and not some Chinese knock off but most importantly CHEAP. But you said pick ONE and stick with it? Why? Is it not good to mix ammos? I was thinking of mixing fmj and HP ammo so I can get the best of both worlds. Is it bad?
And THANK YOU to everyone who contributed. I'm going to molest some hand guns next week and hopefully make a choice and buy one before the end of the year. I'll let everyone know my choice. Cheers!
You want to practice with consistent results, and that's the reason behind sticking with one brand, one bullet weight, one powder charge, etc. Of any firearms instructor, and I'll name-bomb Massad Ayoob, I've not read or seen an opinion supporting mixing ammo types or using FMJ rounds. Hollow-point, soft-point, or fragmenting/fracturing is the way to go for reasons of causing the most incapacitating wound, and not overpenetrating. Believe it or not, FMJ pass right through a person, and while they cause pain and bleeding, may not damage the tissue enough to STOP the threat. Legally speaking you want to stop the attacker; and you have less legal liability if you injure rather than kill the guy (but one fewer witness). So, you'll have to be the judge on that one.
As is the case with most things firearms and self-defense related, you can only read up on good information, and make your own choice how you want to go. I've never shot or killed anyone, or had to deal with the legal system, nor do I really do extensive testing. So for me, while digesting various opinions, I personally lend more credence to those that have.
Having said that, a great ice-breaker to your ammo search is Federal HST 124gr. as a good all-around performer and relatively inexpensive.
Daniel Shaw is the guy. Retired Marine Infantry and Combat Weapons Master Instructor
- Doesn't meet his standards for defensive use
- Maintenance... time and ability
- Limited mag capacity. 7+1, not enough for him personally.
- The safety. Doesn't like having a safety on a defensive handgun. Seen well trained students forget to take the safety off for a drill. Microseconds matter in life and death scenarios. Stress almost always causes guys to forget to take the safety off
And the last one, my 1911s I don't have failure to feeds or eject but I know for a fact my Springfield 1911 can't feed certain types of hollowpoints. My Para can but it's a 14.45 so it's heavy as FUCK.
I know MARSOC used that fancy Colt 1911 but I think even they're moving away from it.
POST PICS when you make your decision.
Federal American Eagle is one of my go-tos.
As to picking one type and stick with it... it's not that it's bad to mix ammo and such, but different brands and types can react differently. Best to try and keep variables limited when you're learning to shoot.
Go with the Glock. This is your first gun, so you don't know a damn thing about what you really want out of a gun. The cool thing about Glocks are that everyone makes Glock parts, so you can swap out triggers, sights, grips, and try all sorts of different combinations. So you'll figure out what you really like. With the CZ, it's probably better out of the case, but you won't have as many options to customize it without breaking the bank.
might as well go with Glock. Glocks are as popular as they are because they are designed to be effective by the least among us. No external safety to train around, large capacity magazine for extra firepower, heavy trigger to provide a modicum of safety for rookie shooters.
Its the Honda Accord of the gun world. does what you need it to do with no frills or luxury.
If you REALLY want to know, go look at what professional gun fighters are running in competition. These guys pay the bills with their gun selection so they are non-hype all performance. The USPSA competition is generally dominated by 1911 setups. Its only when you get to the Production Division that specifically calls for DA/SA, and striker fired handguns that 1911's disappear from the competitive scene. The USPSA production division is mostly CZ's with Glock coming in distant second and everyone else not statistically relevant.
Im not hating on the Glock, i just get annoyed from all the 'its the most deadliest handgun for SAVING YOUR ASS!!!11wtfbbq' crowd on youtube. Its the AK-47 of handguns. it gets its notoriety from cost (affordable) and reliability (brick shit house). You know what OTHER weapon gets that all the time? the Kalishnikov. But nobody, least of all the Glock purist, ever seem to claim the AR-15 is too complicated for defensive use.
Get a Walther PPS or P99
9mm FMJ is terrible for self defense. Can it get the job done? Sure. Will it have a better chance of just creating a through and through wound, and not stopping the bad guy? Yes. FMJ is great practice ammo, but you really want a Round designed for HD.
Right now this would be my ideal HD set up if I had the extra scratch. Then again, this would be with a pistol back up.
I’m all for being a cheap skate. But there’s certain things I don’t believe you should try and cut costs on. Pretty much anything to where you’re life is dependent on, isn’t something you should be looking to save a few bucks.
If you were going skydiving, would you look for a discount parachute? Buy generic whatever, but Guns and ammo, tires, mattresses, etc, don’t be a cheap skate on.
sometimes it comes down to what you can afford. Does a person in a minimum wage job not deserve the right to bear arms or protect himself because nobody wants to provide a cost effective weapon?
That’s a valid counterpoint. I’d argue that the added cost is minimal if we are talking about a 50 round box of cheap 9mm FMJ vs a 20 round box of JHP designed for defensive use. We’re talking about an extra $10 to $15 that might make the difference between stopping an attacker or not.
If we’re talking about a couple of hundred dollars difference between a Hi Point and a gen 1 M&P, id make the same argument, with a cost difference of maybe a couple hundred dollars. But I wouldn’t argue with you that a couple hundred dollars is a lot of money for some, depending on your financial situation.
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