Were Yoel's kneestomps dirty?

[Paradigm]

Or he might be out for a year+. You guys asking for examples are missing the point. Each time someone complains about them or gets hurt by them you keep asking for examples. And when those slowly come, since it's a rarely used move, you continue to ask for examples. Meanwhile Rampage's knee is fucked and Whitaker is out. It hurts the promotion, the fans and the fighter involved. If you need 10-20 more examples until "it's enough", that's just wasting time.

Rampage had knee problems before the Jones fight...it's been well documented and I'm not going to bother to find it for you. Rampage is also a blatant complainer on a variety of subjects.

And when Whittaker comes back in less than a year, I'll be sure to bump the thread.

12-6 elbows and soccer kicks are illegal for the same stupid reason...perception over reality. I base my statements on fact, not emotion. People are ok with brain trauma but possible joint injuries are a no-no for some reason.

It amazing (but also not surprising) that so many people here think that the point of MMA is to hurt your opponent.


I would also assume that the people who think that have probably never actually competed a day in their life.

You are kind of missing the point of combat sports. You have to hurt your opponent to reduce the amount of damage you take. This isn't a point fighting league and yes...people train and compete and still manage to post on Sherdog.

Shit isn't called the hurt business for no reason...

 

[MCS]

Rampage had knee problems before the Jones fight...it's been well documented and I'm not going to bother to find it for you. Rampage is also a blatant complainer on a variety of subjects.

And when Whittaker comes back in less than a year, I'll be sure to bump the thread.

12-6 elbows and soccer kicks are illegal for the same stupid reason...perception over reality. I base my statements on fact, not emotion. People are ok with brain trauma but possible joint injuries are a no-no for some reason.

The problem is basing it on evidence since the evidence that's out shows how dangerous it is. If allowed, it'll happen more. How long Whitaker is out is based on luck and treatment, not the danger of the move.

Combat sports have KO's, which lead to brain trauma. The goal is to win by doing so, long-term trauma comes with it. If they wouldn't be able to come back from KO's combat sports would change or be banned. The goal with banning techniques is fighter safety. Targeting the spine, nuts, eyes, etc takes away from competition & technique.

 

[Paradigm]

The problem is basing it on evidence since the evidence that's out shows how dangerous it is. If allowed, it'll happen more. How long Whitaker is out is based on luck and treatment, not the danger of the move.

Combat sports have KO's, which lead to brain trauma. The goal is to win by doing so, long-term trauma comes with it. If they wouldn't be able to come back from KO's combat sports would change or be banned. The goal with banning techniques is fighter safety. Targeting the spine, nuts, eyes, etc takes away from competition & technique.

And how dangerous is it? @HIMBOB had a huge thread on them and nobody could point to a single fighter with a career ending injury.

You stated that there's no technique to it. Maybe that's due to the fact that defense hasn't caught up with offense YET so it seems like some unstoppable mmove that takes no skill (when it really isn't). When Royce was choking out people left and right in early UFC's, he seemed like a god amongst men. Fast forward a few short years and BJJ defense became more widespread and people were wiser to BJJ submissions. Lumping oblique kicks into the same group as eye pokes and nut shots is purely based on emotions, since nut shots and eye pokes are much more debilitating and have much more serious consequences, if they were to be legalized.

Heel hooks (even with the option to tap to them) have caused more serious injuries in MMA than oblique kicks and heel hooks themselves are probably more even more rare than oblique kicks. I'm assuming you want those banned as well?

I see you ignored my examples of 12-6 elbows and soccer kicks being illegal, even though there is no medical evidence to suggest that they are more dangerous that other strikes allowed currently in the Unified Rules ruleset. The mere perception of the "brutality" of those strikes (ice breaking elbows and kicking a man while down) is what made and keeps them illegal, not actual medical evidence.

The same thing applies to oblique kicks. Tell me...aside from Whittaker, since his case is in progress, what is the longest someone has been out from an oblique kick injury? Please cite examples and facts...not emotional conjecture.

 

[MCS]

You can tap to subs. I haven't said anything about 12-6 elbows or soccer kicks, as they aren't good examples for the reasons you pointed out. You can defend every banned technique. The point is fighter safety.

Your reasoning is reactionary, you need evidence before you'd make a decision. Mine is preemptive. I see the evidence in the small sample size to know these unnecessary injuries will happen again, and I'd put the risk of not being able to walk properly in the same category as potentially being paralyzed or blinded or becoming infertile (as far as illegal techniques go).

The technique to jump stomp a knee requires very little skill, as does a kick to the nads or a poke in the eye, yet the risk for all is long-term. Fighter safety.

 

[Paradigm]

You can tap to subs. I haven't said anything about 12-6 elbows or soccer kicks, as they aren't good examples for the reasons you pointed out. You can defend every banned technique. The point is fighter safety.

Your reasoning is reactionary, you need evidence before you'd make a decision. Mine is preemptive. I see the evidence in the small sample size to know these unnecessary injuries will happen again, and I'd put the risk of not being able to walk properly in the same category as potentially being paralyzed or blinded or becoming infertile (as far as illegal techniques go).

The technique to jump stomp a knee requires very little skill, as does a kick to the nads or a poke in the eye.

You can tap to a heel hook and still get your knee shredded...that was the point.

Secondly, you haven't pointed out any evidence using this small sample size. You have no idea when Whittaker is coming back yet so you probably shouldn't cite him now, let's he starts training three months from now. Whittaker already had a knee issue before the fight and Rampage did as well before his Jones fight.

You can die from punches and plenty have in boxing already...yet they're still legal, even with all the evidence.

Who is not walking properly from oblique kicks?

 

[MCS]

You can tap to a heel hook and still get your knee shredded...that was the point.

Secondly, you haven't pointed out any evidence using this small sample size. You have no idea when Whittaker is coming back yet so you probably shouldn't cite him now, let's he starts training three months from now. Whittaker already had a knee issue before the fight and Rampage did as well before his Jones fight.

You can die from punches and plenty have in boxing already...yet they're still legal, even with all the evidence.

Who is not walking properly from oblique kicks?

Him being injured is the evidence. Torres & Rampage as well. You keep harping on recovery time, when that's based on luck and treatment. It is the evidence of the danger of that move, otherwise there would be no discussion. And stop bringing up punches in boxing if you want a reasonable debate. You can have measures for fighter safety in an environment where you can use a set amount of moves.

 

[Paradigm]

Him being injured is the evidence. Torres & Rampage as well. You keep harping on recovery time, when that's based on luck and treatment. It is the evidence of the danger of that move, otherwise there would be no discussion. And stop bringing up punches in boxing if you want a reasonable debate. You can have measures for fighter safety in an environment where you can use a set amount of moves.

His knee was injured was already injured before the Yoel fight...he said so himself.

Torres fought 5 months after he knee thing and he even finished the fight he got kicked in (as in made it to the final bell).

Rampage fought Bader 5 months after Jones. Comparing that to previous layoffs of 15 months between Jardine and Rashad and 10 months between Hendo and Griffin makes 5 months off with an "injured knee from Jones's oblique kicks" seem relatively short.

Who has had the unlucky roll of dice with recovery time that you can name so far???

 

[MCS]

His knee was injured was already injured before the Yoel fight...he said so himself.

Torres fought 5 months after he knee thing and he even finished the fight he got kicked in (as in made it to the final bell).

Rampage fought Bader 5 months after Jones. Comparing that to previous layoffs of 15 months between Jardine and Rashad and 10 months between Hendo and Griffin makes 5 months off with an "injured knee from Jones's oblique kicks" seem relatively short.

Who has had the unlucky roll of dice with recovery time that you can name so far???

Yet you keep harping on recovery time. Do you read the posts you respond to, or is it better to ask the same question over and over? Rampage was also injured for the Bader camp because of Jones, came in overweight as he couldn't run.

 

[HIMBOB]

And how dangerous is it? @HIMBOB had a huge thread on them and nobody could point to a single fighter with a career ending injury.

You stated that there's no technique to it. Maybe that's due to the fact that defense hasn't caught up with offense YET so it seems like some unstoppable mmove that takes no skill (when it really isn't). When Royce was choking out people left and right in early UFC's, he seemed like a god amongst men. Fast forward a few short years and BJJ defense became more widespread and people were wiser to BJJ submissions. Lumping oblique kicks into the same group as eye pokes and nut shots is purely based on emotions, since nut shots and eye pokes are much more debilitating and have much more serious consequences, if they were to be legalized.

Heel hooks (even with the option to tap to them) have caused more serious injuries in MMA than oblique kicks and heel hooks themselves are probably more even more rare than oblique kicks. I'm assuming you want those banned as well?

I see you ignored my examples of 12-6 elbows and soccer kicks being illegal, even though there is no medical evidence to suggest that they are more dangerous that other strikes allowed currently in the Unified Rules ruleset. The mere perception of the "brutality" of those strikes (ice breaking elbows and kicking a man while down) is what made and keeps them illegal, not actual medical evidence.

The same thing applies to oblique kicks. Tell me...aside from Whittaker, since his case is in progress, what is the longest someone has been out from an oblique kick injury? Please cite examples and facts...not emotional conjecture.

I disagree on soccer kicks but the rest i agree with entirel.

Yet you keep harping on recovery time. Do you read the posts you respond to, or is it better to ask the same question over and over? Rampage was also injured for the Bader camp because of Jones, came in overweight as he couldn't run.

Rampage had hurt his right knee and it needed surgery (not the one jones kicked).

 

[Paradigm]

I disagree on soccer kicks but the rest i agree with entirel.




Rampage had hurt his right knee and it needed surgery (not the one jones kicked).

Evidently OneFC did some sort of studies on them and soccer kicks didn't generate any more force than standup head kicks. I'd be fine with bringing them back and knees back but leaving stomps out.

 

[Vil7]

Until the rules get changed it's a legal but generally frowned upon technique.

 

[Vil7]

Evidently OneFC did some sort of studies on them and soccer kicks didn't generate any more force than standup head kicks. I'd be fine with bringing them back and knees back but leaving stomps out.

Yeah I agree but it seems like soccer kicks are a much more high percentage strike to land to the head than stomps to the head.

 

[HIMBOB]

Evidently OneFC did some sort of studies on them and soccer kicks didn't generate any more force than standup head kicks. I'd be fine with bringing them back and knees back but leaving stomps out.

Imo its not about force its the ability to land them between a fighter going out and the ref stopping the fight.

 

[Paradigm]

Imo its not about force its the ability to land them between a fighter going out and the ref stopping the fight.

Isn't that more of a ref positioning issue?

 

[HIMBOB]

Isn't that more of a ref positioning issue?

To a degree yes but a ref has to see a fighter is out before stopping the fight.

Further that issue can never be solved so you have to accomodate for that.