We haven't had a good Atheism discussion in a while... any mathematicians in the house?

[Voodoo_Child906]

http://www.godupdates.com/atheist-scientist-becomes-a-christian-after-a-visit-from-angels/

Hardcore Atheist Converts After Jesus Visits Him In A Vision

Making A Believer Out Of An Atheist

Gunther Scheizle is a brilliant mind. As a nuclear physicist and professor of Physics, he kind of had to be. And for most of his life, he was a die-hard atheist. Things like quantitative data, research studies, cold hard fact — these were the things that made sense. All of this “faith in the unseen” business that Christians believed in seemed like a joke to the man of science. That is, until God showed him the truth!


Pictured: Rolf-Dieter Heuer, Director General of CERN Credit: World News Daily Report

The German genius works for the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) and is also a professor of Physics at a Swiss Institute. Everyone familiar with Gunther knew him as a self-described “no-nonsense, anti-religious atheist.”

“I once threw a heavy physics book at one of my students just because he even mentioned the possibility of Intelligent Design in the universe,” Gunther explains.

But to the shock of all who know him, Gunther’s opinion recently changed dramatically after a divine intervention!

It happened on the day that Gunther and his brainy colleagues were living a scientist’s ultimate dream. They were getting ready to run one of the most powerful tests ever to be done on the Large Hadron Collider — the world’s largest and most powerful particle collider. But as they started their experiment, the 57-year-old started to feel uneasy, and then passed out.


Credit: World News Daily Report

As it turns out, he was having a heart attack. But he was also having a “come to Jesus” meeting. . .literally!

“Although I was unconscious and my body lay paralyzed on the floor, I felt like I was outside my body and could hear and see all the commotion my heart failure had caused around me,” he explains. “That is when beings of light came and comforted me. They did not say anything, but I knew I was going to survive and that my mission on earth had not yet been accomplished. I knew I was not dead. All I remember after that is waking up in the ambulance in excruciating pain.”

We all have our reasons for changing our minds, I'm curious, what would it take for you to change your mind and become an Atheist or at least an Agnostic.

 

[Vagitarian]

Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro.




You're conflating organized religion with belief in a higher power. Not the same thing.



True, but most people don't behave that way. As such, it's best to have a belief in something greater to serve as a reminder that everyone is divine in a sense and deserves to be treated with dignity, at least in principle.

I'm sorry but I'm just not going to accept atheism as a viable choice for the future. That leads to moral relativism and deconstructionist thought, which is exactly what needs to be averted if we want to avoid socialism and the destruction of the foundations of the West.

Charlamagne, Queen Isabella, Henry VIII, Ivan III, Emperor Theodosius, Pius V, like half the Popes like Pope Urban

You and I can trade names back and forth, but I doubt I'll run out of horrific christian leaders before you run out of horrific atheist ones.

And thats what kind of puzzles me about christians. You need a book to tell you not to kill people? You need to be controlled by fear being burnt alive to not murder, assault, or commit other heinous acts?

And what exactly is wrong with moral relativism in your eyes?

 

[JDragon]

Nah, I lost a bet to @hardcoreBE. I'm from Germany actually.

I'm in Belgium frequently for work though, I enjoy their beers. (I just admitted it. Fuck.)

You do? I mean a Stella once in a while is okay, but...the way I see it, the way that Belgians flavor their beer with herbs is proof of the impossibility of the existence of God. (Mathematically.)

 

[fartJokes]

Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro.

Their tyranny had as much to do with atheism as it did with their favorite flavor of ice cream. This is because there is no dogma attached to atheism except the rejection of (unwarranted) belief in a supernatural being. They were ambitious and vicious narcissists who all supported & used totalitarian ideologies to secure their power.

You're conflating organized religion with belief in a higher power. Not the same thing.

An odd statement following your conflation of totalitarian ideologies and atheism.

True, but most people don't behave that way. As such, it's best to have a belief in something greater to serve as a reminder that everyone is divine in a sense and deserves to be treated with dignity, at least in principle.

Most people don't behave that way regardless of religious/atheist belief. Religion is not an inoculation against immoral behavior. Morality clearly proceeds religion. In fact current Western morality transcends it's Judeo-Christian roots, as secular humanist values have overridden biblical values in regards to slavery, rape, universal rights for all, women's rights, gay rights, etc.

Believing doesn't "make everyone divine in a sense", it's separates the "worthy/saved" from the "condemned". This way it's easier dehumanize them (deny their dignity) and to kill them (classic us vs them). Non-belief makes us all equal in the here and now.

I'm sorry but I'm just not going to accept atheism as a viable choice for the future. That leads to moral relativism and deconstructionist thought, which is exactly what needs to be averted if we want to avoid socialism and the destruction of the foundations of the West.

The good news is you don't have to, it's happening on it's own, with or without you. Also, it has nothing to do with socialism and the leftist push against the conservative ideal of personal responsibility. Again, morality is detached from belief in the supernatural. It stands on it's own.

The real danger regarding the morality question is "divine command theory". That is, whatever god commands is good ... even when it's genocide. But morality cannot be delegated or subcontracted. Personal responsibility, right? Not passing the buck like the "just following orders"/Nuremberg defense.

 

[KYS]

You do? I mean a Stella once in a while is okay, but...the way I see it, the way that Belgians flavor their beer with herbs is proof of the impossibility of the existence of God. (Mathematically.)

Their cherry flavored beer proves the existence of Satan, that's for sure.

 

[fartJokes]

I don't really know. I know I work out like a fucking maniac and I still keep a bible next to my bed, so I really haven't found a good replacement. I read all the atheist books like 10 years ago, Victor Stenger's is the best one btw, but you might eventually see the value in religion.

You mean the value in ANY religion, or a particular one? LOL, are all delusions equally valuable?

 

[nostradumbass]

You mean the value in ANY religion, or a particular one? LOL, are all delusions equally valuable?

There's a pecking order. I don't really have a preference between Christianity and Judaism, or Buddhism or taoism.

 

[KillMeGod]

God is fake! I call on all your gods to come down before me and strike me down. If any of your pussy gods were in my presence i would crush them with my fist like a fly!

Prove to me god exists, send your god to fight me!

 

[sickc0d3r]

I think the discussion of whether or not there is free will is a little more fundamental.

At the deepest level, we're products of our genes, our subconscious, and chemical reactions in the brain. Even though the result is unpredictable, it's not necessarily a choice.

Psychological studies show people are fundamentally less moral, i.e. more likely to cheat or steal (in an experimental setting) after reading a piece arguing that free will is an illusion.

Yeah, the brain is a physical system. Every decision is preceded by firing neurons. We probably don't have any more control over choices than we do our own heartbeat.

 

[Lord Coke]

You mean the value in ANY religion, or a particular one? LOL, are all delusions equally valuable?

The belief that touching spoiled meat will turn you to stone
has more value than the belief that touching cooked meat will turn you to stone.

 

[fartJokes]

The belief that touching spoiled meat will turn you to stone
has more value than the belief that touching cooked meat will turn you to stone.

Not sure what this means. Both are categorically wrong and both suggest that magic is real, and both are inflexible dogma. I don't find either particularly valuable. I prefer truth, or at least the unbiased quest for truth, and knowledge that can expand/change as we make new discoveries and test new information.

 

[Lord Coke]

Not sure what this means. Both are categorically wrong and both suggest that magic is real, and both are inflexible dogma. I don't find either particularly valuable. I prefer truth, or at least the unbiased quest for truth, and knowledge that can expand/change as we make new discoveries and test new information.

The poster asked if all delusions have equal value. They clearly do not.
Here, one delusion has a utility and another does not.
Many religious texts use metaphor to impart a social utility.
The Bible tells us …11"But it shall be when evening approaches, he shall bathe himself with water, and at sundown he may reenter the camp. 12"You shall also have a place outside the camp and go out there, 13and you shall have a spade among your tools, and it shall be when you sit down outside, you shall dig with it and shall turn to cover up your excrement.…
Deut. 23:14 For the LORD your God moves about in your camp to protect you and to deliver your enemies to you. Your camp must be holy, so that he will not see among you anything indecent and turn away from you.


Imagine you are a higher power that is trying to convey to a pre germ theory culture how not to spread disease.
You could try to explain to them bacteria and they would not understand. So you simply coach the terms in a metaphor and you achieve the goal rather than have a bunch of primitive people scacthing their heads about microscopic objects being able to reproduce.

 

[WorldofWarcraft]

This is anecdotal, but this is a true story that happened to me just last week.

As you all know, I've been suffering from crippling depression when my mom passed away March 12th of this year. It was very tough just to do the daily routine, but it got a little bit better, then recently, it's gotten worse than ever. I miss my mom severely and I often find myself cutting everything off.

I was in my car when depression hit me hard as shit. Much of it is me thinking I'll never see my mom again and I was doubting whether or not the afterlife exists.

The classical music folder was in play in my usb drive on my car stereo. I looked at the car in front of me and the license plate says "heisreal."

The song that was playing on my radio was, "Hallelujiah." Even if it was just a ridiculous coincidence, I NEEDED that badly at that very moment.

What are the chances that when I'm at the very bottom of my 36 years of life, this particular song played right when I saw that particular license plate?

 

[Andy Capp]

@vagtitarian I guess we need another

Yeah, the brain is a physical system. Every decision is preceded by firing neurons. We probably don't have any more control over choices than we do our own heartbeat.

I don't necessarily agree with the supposition that there is no free will, but it's very interesting. I think there's a good chance free will is an emergent property like consciousness.

The OP mentions Mathematics. In connection with the above, it's interesting to note Godel's incompleteness theorem tells us there are statements that are mathematically true but cannot be proven in the sense of being stated as a formal proof/algorithm.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

@vagtitarian I guess we need another

I don't necessarily agree with the supposition that there is no free will, but it's very interesting. I think there's a good chance free will is an emergent property like consciousness.

The OP mentions Mathematics. In connection with the above, it's interesting to note Godel's incompleteness theorem tells us there are statements that are mathematically true but cannot be proven in the sense of being stated as a formal proof/algorithm.

If there is no free will are people responsible for their actions?

 

[Andy Capp]

If there is no free will are people responsible for their actions?

Again, I am not convinced there's no free will, but you put your finger on the pulse of the issue. That's what makes it such an interesting question. Should the death penalty be abolished because in essence no person could really have stopped themselves from performing their heinous acts? Certainly we have at least the perception of free will. I can complete this sentence or

 

[mcveteran81]

This is anecdotal, but this is a true story that happened to me just last week.

As you all know, I've been suffering from crippling depression when my mom passed away March 12th of this year. It was very tough just to do the daily routine, but it got a little bit better, then recently, it's gotten worse than ever. I miss my mom severely and I often find myself cutting everything off.

I was in my car when depression hit me hard as shit. Much of it is me thinking I'll never see my mom again and I was doubting whether or not the afterlife exists.

The classical music folder was in play in my usb drive on my car stereo. I looked at the car in front of me and the license plate says "heisreal."

The song that was playing on my radio was, "Hallelujiah." Even if it was just a ridiculous coincidence, I NEEDED that badly at that very moment.

What are the chances that when I'm at the very bottom of my 36 years of life, this particular song played right when I saw that particular license plate?

Brother there are no coincidences. You were meant to see that at that specific time. God doesn't always talk loudly, but He does speak directly to us.

 

[hillelslovak87]

Brother there are no coincidences. You were meant to see that at that specific time. God doesn't always talk loudly, but He does speak directly to us.

He speaks most often in dead children under 5. 38,000 a day, in fact. He can stop evil from happening, but chooses not to, while demanding humans fear and love him at the same time. What an awesome guy, it's not like he's sado masochistic at all.

 

[mcveteran81]

He speaks most often in dead children under 5. 38,000 a day, in fact. He can stop evil from happening, but chooses not to, while demanding humans fear and love him at the same time. What an awesome guy, it's not like he's sado masochistic at all.

Your damn near fucking worthless. Seriously this man is sharing something and you feel the need to post shit like this. God have mercy on you, I'm done with you.

 

[KYS]

Kindly post your dissertation.

You wanna show off? I'd never post my dissertation here, lol.

Wrote it in under two years, it was graded summa cum laude (German system, means with highest distinction). It was awarded the faculty price for the best thesis. Eight papers were made from it, seven of those were single author papers.

Now you.