We haven't had a good Atheism discussion in a while... any mathematicians in the house?

[FascistDictator]

If God exists outside of our universe then none of our laws would apply to Him. He would basically be a hypervisor and our universe is His computer system.

But if God doesn't exist then how did the universe get here? How can something come from nothing?

Then I realized... What if there is no such thing as "nothing"?

In a way, nothing and God are both infinite and continue forever. Nothing is just... nothing... and forever, too.

But.. What if nothing is the only thing that's real and everything is really truly nothing and that the universe actually CAME from nothing hence truly nothingness actually creates.... something?

 

[STEVEN SEAGOLD]

 

[Fawlty]

We can't really define "nothing" so that's a bit of a problem. And conditions like what we think of as nothing are probably very unstable. We don't even have a place to put god now that we've looked around a bit and learned some things. We literally have to define him right out of existence (protip: that means he doesn't exist). God only gets into the argument courtesy of the ultimate presupposition. I suggest we stop granting that, the worst presupposition imaginable, as soon as earthly possible.

 

[FascistDictator]

We can't really define "nothing" so that's a bit of a problem. And conditions like what we think of as nothing are probably very unstable. We don't even have a place to put god now that we've looked around a bit and learned some things. We literally have to define him right out of existence (protip: that means he doesn't exist). God only gets into the argument courtesy of the ultimate presupposition. I suggest we stop granting that, the worst presupposition imaginable, as soon as earthly possible.

how far did you get in maths?

and if God doesn't exist then why do we?

 

[Gazwald]

*The belief that there is no god.

Anything else theists add on the end are just assumptions.

 

[loyalyolayal]

Not really a mathematician but I'm converting seconds from a video file to minutes and seconds for srt subtitles in my head atm. Does that count?

 

[Fawlty]

how far did you get in maths?

and if God doesn't exist then why do we?

I'm not a math magician unfortunately.

There's no reason to tie up our existence in the existence of god. It's just not a factor. Not necessary, not in evidence, and of course, makes no sense.

 

[hillelslovak87]

How is it possible? How can people be so dumb as to not even know what something as simple as atheism is. Goddamnit, species!!!

 

[PrinceOfPain]

Atheism isn't really relevant enough to warrant being a topic of conversation.

 

[FascistDictator]

I'm not a math magician unfortunately.

There's no reason to tie up our existence in the existence of god. It's just not a factor. Not necessary, not in evidence, and of course, makes no sense.

No offense, sir.

But why should I take your advice on THAT if you're not even capable in the highly complex and logical world of maths?

Atheism isn't really relevant enough to warrant being a topic of conversation.

Heh. Funny story...

*The belief that there is no god.

Anything else theists add on the end are just assumptions.

lol no.

Proceed to debunk that photo with your own scientific explanations as to how the big bang happened instead.

 

[hillelslovak87]

Atheism isn't really relevant enough to warrant being a topic of conversation.

I'm waiting for some idiot to start an alchemy topic....

 

[hillelslovak87]

No offense, sir.

But why should I take your advice on THAT if you're not even capable in the highly complex and logical world of maths?


Heh. Funny story...


lol no.

Proceed to debunk that photo with your own scientific explanations as to how the big bang happened instead.

That is called cosmology. Atheism is merely a lack of belief in theism....

 

[nostradumbass]

I guess I'm an atheist, in that I don't believe there's actually a conscious thing calling the shots who could change his mind, but there is a solid unchanging thing in nature and you can't try to figure out some way around it and find a way where hedonism somehow works.

Theism or deism wasn't ever supposed to be scientific, it was always philosophical, not scientific or historical.

 

[Gazwald]

lol no.

Proceed to debunk that photo with your own scientific explanations as to how the big bang happened instead.

That's the whole point. I personally don't give a shit how the big bang happened. We might have a good idea of how the universe started, or we might not. We've been constantly correcting scientific theories and discoveries throughout our existence. Not sure if we're even close to advanced enough to be confident we knew how existence started, or if we ever will be.

All I believe is that religion is a naturally occurring social phenomena and the deities associated with the religions are fictitious. Something theists agree with me 99% (with the obvious exception of their own religion).

Big bang theory? Don't care. I'm sure fair number of atheists do, but the assumption that every atheist believes they know how the universe started is incredibly ignorant.

 

[PrinceOfPain]

Heh. Funny story...

You disagree?

I guess it could be argued that modern, militant atheism empowers Islam at the expense of Christianity. To be honest though, I don't even think that that lunatic variety of obnoxious, pushy atheists wield enough influence to really hold any sway over that conflict.
Moderate atheists (those of us that realise that atheism is not exactly a banner that can be rallied around) are hardly distinguishable from the followers of the majority faiths in the societies they hail from, and so our atheism/agnosticism is pretty meaningless.

If/when atheists start being killed for their lack of belief, then maybe atheism will be a worthwhile topic.
Maybe when more atheists realise that there is more to religion than the belief in invisible men in the sky, they can initiate a conversation on the importance/danger of religious beliefs and traditions.
Unfortunately, most atheists seem to still be convinced that "there is no god" is as deep as their insight needs to run.

 

[Space]

I guess I'm an atheist, in that I don't believe there's actually a conscious thing calling the shots who could change his mind, but there is a solid unchanging thing in nature and you can't try to figure out some way around it and find a way where hedonism somehow works.

Theism or deism wasn't ever supposed to be scientific, it was always philosophical, not scientific or historical.

 

[Gazwald]

You disagree?

I guess it could be argued that modern, militant atheism empowers Islam at the expense of Christianity. To be honest though, I don't even think that that lunatic variety of obnoxious, pushy atheists wield enough influence to really hold any sway over that conflict.
Moderate atheists (those of us that realise that atheism is not exactly a banner that can be rallied around) are hardly distinguishable from the followers of the majority faiths in the societies they hail from, and so our atheism/agnosticism is pretty meaningless.

If/when atheists start being killed for their lack of belief, then maybe atheism will be a worthwhile topic.
Maybe when more atheists realise that there is more to religion than the belief in invisible men in the sky, they can initiate a conversation on the importance/danger of religious beliefs and traditions.
Unfortunately, most atheists seem to still be convinced that "there is no god" is as deep as their insight needs to run.

This is why I describe myself as "not religious" in social situations. Ever had a militant atheist latch onto you at a social gathering and go on the ol' generic tirade, assuming they've made a new friend or the like? Painful.

 

[mb23100]

I guess I'm an atheist, in that I don't believe there's actually a conscious thing calling the shots who could change his mind, but there is a solid unchanging thing in nature and you can't try to figure out some way around it and find a way where hedonism somehow works.

Theism or deism wasn't ever supposed to be scientific, it was always philosophical, not scientific or historical.

Well put

 

[nostradumbass]

Yes, I'm roughly on the same page as Jordan Peterson as far as religion goes.

 

[AviatorShades]