Was Jack Dempsey "a joke"?

True. Who, ironically, closely studied and relied upon Dempsey.
it was natural, dempsey had used a "centerline" principle and the vertical fist before bruce had made his name and bruce's home style, wing chun, used a centerline/vertical fist. It must have been a real joy when bruce read what dempsey had written on that. Like, "i knew we had it right".
 
Everybody aged like that back then thanks to all the smoking, booze, and working in the sun from an early age.
i was watching an old docu from the 70's called "scared straight" it had a bunch of mid-teen kids, one commenter mentioned that teens back then looked 35, it seemed to be true with those kids at least.
 
i was watching an old docu from the 70's called "scared straight" it had a bunch of mid-teen kids, one commenter mentioned that teens back then looked 35, it seemed to be true with those kids at least.

That reminds me, I watched a documentary on Bolivian or Peruvian child miners and saw a 16 year old who had been working since before he hit puberty and it was jarring to look at him because he looked like a 16 year old but with noticeable wrinkles on his face. He had to support his family as a child and the stress is evidenced by his wrinkles. I think he smoked which contributes to that too.

Also, besides lifestyle changes from 1918 to 2018, there’s scientific evidence that plastic in the environment is increasing estrogen levels and killing our testosterone levels. You should look it up, I don’t want to make a lengthy post on how plastic is turning the frogs gay on a boxing forum, lol.
 
wonder what happened to most of them? they couldn't have all gotten banned, and if they did, it doesn't seem that easy to get banned here. I've always had a pretty big mouth and I haven't had problems.
There was a mass exodus to nobsboxing but many arguments ensued, some returned but I guess a few were too proud?
 
Kinda makes you wonder what would have happened if Milo Savage had brutally KO'd Lebell in their proto MMA fight way back when. It would have been a black eye for Judo, but might also have *slightly* slowed the spread of the TMA styles that would generate the most McDojos in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.
That fight was bullshit, and I don't think really had an affect on either sport.
The matching of disciplines had been happening since the early 1900s.
 
That fight was bullshit, and I don't think really had an affect on either sport.
The matching of disciplines had been happening since the early 1900s.

The reason I mentioned it was because Black Belt Magazine made a big deal of it at the time, and that magazine was the unofficial message board for the martial arts community back then. It would at least be interesting to see if a spectacular failure would inspire other TMA guys to challenge boxers, and gain a more sensible impression of their chances against them.

On the other hand, it's possible the magazine would just decide not to report if Lebell had lost. And you'd need half a dozen spectacular losses to hammer the lesson home, like Muay Thai needed against TMAs and American kickboxing.

EDIT: There was also a lot less watered down karate back then, compared to the 80s and 90s. So there's always the chance they do reasonably well.
 
I dont really get why LeBell always only gets mentioned as Judo fighter. Especially in his early days biggest influences were professional wrestlers who were much tougher with real skills back then and always trained with him. Even later after he returned from Japan he still trained catch.

I mean even after his fighting career he managed wrestling. LeBell is the perfect example of someone incorporating wrestling and judo. He is , funny enough, much more diverse in style than lets say Ronda Rousey for example.
 
I dont really get why LeBell always only gets mentioned as Judo fighter. Especially in his early days biggest influences were professional wrestlers who were much tougher with real skills back then and always trained with him. Even later after he returned from Japan he still trained catch.

I mean even after his fighting career he managed wrestling. LeBell is the perfect example of someone incorporating wrestling and judo. He is , funny enough, much more diverse in style than lets say Ronda Rousey for example.
labelle is an interesting guy, a character, seems nice in a lot of ways. I won't call him a liar but his story of throwing bruce lee around on the set of green hornet doesn't necessarily ring true. I wouldn't say it couldn't have happened, but when there are no witnesses and you consider he didn't come out with the story until 1990 or so makes me wonder. And then, there is the issue of whether it was a real fight or just a couple guys palling around, we don't know. Only one party is alive to say it so i kinda put that in the category of sammo hung's story of beating up bruce lee when no one was around. I've been in that situation myself, chocked a coworker after he attacked me, it was stupid, but I reacted the only way i knew how, anyway, he went around saying he threw me on the ground and all this shit and he walked away when i got up and chocked him from behind. men and their stupid egos i tell you. Like Jim Brown once said, that every man you meet wants to kick your ass, it's more or less true.
 
That reminds me, I watched a documentary on Bolivian or Peruvian child miners and saw a 16 year old who had been working since before he hit puberty and it was jarring to look at him because he looked like a 16 year old but with noticeable wrinkles on his face. He had to support his family as a child and the stress is evidenced by his wrinkles. I think he smoked which contributes to that too.

Also, besides lifestyle changes from 1918 to 2018, there’s scientific evidence that plastic in the environment is increasing estrogen levels and killing our testosterone levels. You should look it up, I don’t want to make a lengthy post on how plastic is turning the frogs gay on a boxing forum, lol.
i think i've heard about the gay frogs, it's obvious in society, at least the big cities with these bitchy men of all races. Even the thug black kids act like girls, gossipping on their :eek::eek::eek: cell phones.
 
labelle is an interesting guy, a character, seems nice in a lot of ways. I won't call him a liar but his story of throwing bruce lee around on the set of green hornet doesn't necessarily ring true. I wouldn't say it couldn't have happened, but when there are no witnesses and you consider he didn't come out with the story until 1990 or so makes me wonder. And then, there is the issue of whether it was a real fight or just a couple guys palling around, we don't know. Only one party is alive to say it so i kinda put that in the category of sammo hung's story of beating up bruce lee when no one was around. I've been in that situation myself, chocked a coworker after he attacked me, it was stupid, but I reacted the only way i knew how, anyway, he went around saying he threw me on the ground and all this shit and he walked away when i got up and chocked him from behind. men and their stupid egos i tell you. Like Jim Brown once said, that every man you meet wants to kick your ass, it's more or less true.

I dont give a shit about all this Bruce Lee crap and the other exhibition fights. Thats an american phenom to be crazy about some 120lbs guy who fought some bums, made trashy action flicks and whos biggest goal in life was to get rich. If someone really is neutral its very easy to depict all the Lee fairy tales as exactly that. But LeBell was unrelated to that a true mixed martial artist with good skills who influenced ma for the better.

Real pioneers were guys like Bluming and in the 80s all the guys from Netherland wo continued to evolve stand up by mixing styles AND fight.
But US also was an interesting melting pot of ground fighting styles as wrestling/Judo/catch wrestling or cross training/fighting boxing/wrestling and not only since 70s but close to 100 years. Martin Burns, Strangler Lewis...etc But I guess you know all that.
 
I dont give a shit about all this Bruce Lee crap and the other exhibition fights. Thats an american phenom to be crazy about some 120lbs guy who fought some bums, made trashy action flicks and whos biggest goal in life was to get rich. If someone really is neutral its very easy to depict all the Lee fairy tales as exactly that. But LeBell was unrelated to that a true mixed martial artist with good skills who influenced ma for the better.

Real pioneers were guys like Bluming and in the 80s all the guys from Netherland wo continued to evolve stand up by mixing styles AND fight.
But US also was an interesting melting pot of ground fighting styles as wrestling/Judo/catch wrestling or cross training/fighting boxing/wrestling and not only since 70s but close to 100 years. Martin Burns, Strangler Lewis...etc But I guess you know all that.
I'm aware of lebelle being a fighter, but I'm also a Bruce Lee disciple, have been for many years. I believe he was a genius, like Dempsey, a creative who jotted down voluminous notes in his spare time. Whether he could beat anyone on the planet when he was alive or not doesn't really matter to meanymore. Of course, those in the know said he did best all the top guys of his day behind closed doors, that doesn't really matter either. yes, i know there were some other guys around who had merit, notably the gracies, these other guys you mention i don't know about. But, I will say this, I've been around boxers, martial artists, pro fighters for a long time and at least with the martial artists, they're all the same, with the same grandiose mentality and it's all "ME" it doesn't matter the style, it doesn't matter if they can really back it up, because it's all the same attitude. The mma'rs used to look down their noses because they fought a couple times a year more than the martial artists, but, the attitude wasn't any different, I know because I was around both and it turned me off. Labelle seems to have that attitude, sounds like Sammo Hung did too, I just hate that attitude. It gets in the way of everyone's growth and that bizarre need for every male to be the alpha male just fucks up things for everyone. You can't work with anyone like that because everyone is so insecure, I've said it many times, i should have stayed in boxing because they are almost always a lot more grounded. And sometimes i wonder about Bruce even, was he like what I hate so much about Martial artists? that every idiot you run into has some sick need to be worshipped? Maybe he was, and after having been close with my mentor, who was his highest ranking instructor, and seeing how he really was, yes, I wonder about Bruce sometimes because if that's the kind of guy he hung around with, not a bad guy but self-deceptive, egotistical and just, in his own sister's words "a loser" in some ways, i wonder about Bruce sometimes to, but usually, i'm too busy being in awe of him. There was only one, maybe he couldn't have taken Helio gracie if they'd crossed paths but that doesn't really matter to me.
 
Kinda makes you wonder what would have happened if Milo Savage had brutally KO'd Lebell in their proto MMA fight way back when. It would have been a black eye for Judo, but might also have *slightly* slowed the spread of the TMA styles that would generate the most McDojos in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.
I don't know, until the ufc, martial artists had a great respect for boxing, at least underneath all the bs, they would tell you boxers would be your toughest opponents. That changed overnight with the first ufc. before that, there were stories of boxers fighting martial artists and they were pretty much all the same, boxer would win. Joe Lewis was kayoed in sparring by some canadian boxer, which is what my old mentor told me, it was never really put out though. so, although grappling went under the umbrella of martial arts, most of the arts that were commercially successful were striking arts.
 
I like the thing in his book about the 3 knuckle landing

Other than that the book is pretty rudimentary by modern standards. It basically teaches you how to load up and throw haymakers as hard as you can. Unless you were a physical freak like George Foreman/Wilder, there's no way you'd be a successful pro fighting like that.
 
I thought the book was more advanced than what i saw of him in the ring. he was also, interestingly critical of the then modern fighters of the 40's-50's saying they didn't throw the jab with any power, he was right, for whatever reason, even sugar ray robinson usually just used his jab as a range finder. Not everyone really has the gift of what he was asking for though, not everyone can develop a good jab. therefore, many used it as something to distract, to make a guy keep thinking of slipping it, leaning this or that way to avoid it. It's worked for a lot of great fighters but he was right, many fighters don't use a real jab.
 
damn, nacho boy got banned talking about the manassa mauler
 
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