Was Bill Wallace being a bully here or is it fair play?

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Guestx, May 13, 2018.

  1. shincheckin

    shincheckin Brown Belt

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    winning the spar is the equivalent of winning the pads.
     
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  2. Vil7

    Vil7 Silver Belt

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    I disagree I've been to some of his seminars & his boxing is pretty good and he's spent a lot of time in boxing gyms. He could have knocked that guy out in the first couple exchanges if he'd have wanted to.
     
  3. shincheckin

    shincheckin Brown Belt

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    his hands looked pretty good to me in that video as well, although when i watch his fights, they looked pretty sloppy, not his hands but just everythign in general, his old school fights seemed more of a slug fest.
     
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  4. j123

    j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

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    Let me bang mang
    Damn, I haven't counted my mitt record. I might be the super GOAT if I did
     
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  5. 98bird

    98bird Brown Belt

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    This is just standard.

    If you want to make a name for yourself by landing hard shots on a legend....or even landing way too many shots, lightly......like this guy did.....then when he turns up the heat, you respectfully bow out or go down and stay down.....not get up, because more pain is coming.

    This is expected, especially when there's a camera's rolling. And back then, it was like a unicorn appearance to see a big ass, VHS tape, camcorder....so you know Wallace couldn't let him slide and was going to jack him up.
     
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  6. AndyMaBobs

    AndyMaBobs Brown Belt

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    Y'know your basement? Well right underneath that.
    I don't really believe in all this 'put them in their place' nonsense. You're and adult, be the adult. If you're sparring and some kid is being stupid and taking it too far - just call a stop to the sparring session and tell him that you're not sparring until he can show that he's willing to spar properly.

    Getting made and beating someones ass just makes you a tool as well. You're not in a fight, you're in a sparring session, so just as it's not right for him to spar really hard, it's not right for you to concuss him to teach him a lesson.

    I don't know Bill and I don't really know the situation - but harsh words coming from someone as respected as Bill Wallace probably would have had more effect on the kid than Bill knocking him out.
     
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  7. Sano

    Sano Black Belt

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    Agree. The guy barely landed a few jabs, no need to drop him several times. Even if he was acting like a goofy idiot. Seemed like a hurt ego.

    Fast hands from old man Wallace though.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
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  8. listrahtes

    listrahtes Brown Belt

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    Disagree. These are the kind of people who also love bullying weaker skilled sparring partners and the only lesson to teach them is to give them a taste of their own medicine. They dont give a shit about some words. They are there for the thrill to mark their territory and make a pissing contest out of it so lets make it and show it goes both ways.

    I`ve seen such people crumble under the first real beating they got and that was the end of their behaviour or the end of their gym career. Either way the right move.
     
  9. Peter Smits

    Peter Smits Orange Belt

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    Pretty lame how "One-Nut" Wallace only fought cans and retired early. This mustached-hippy from the local headshop have been his toughest opponent.
     
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  10. Tone C

    Tone C Silver Belt

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    I remember there being a fellow 1st kyu brown belt called Dave at my first gym who had no control over his punches and who reduced younger,weaker and less experienced students to tears.

    We were similar builds etc so I often got paired off. Anyway, we were doing line out drills where you basically move along the line changing partners. One girl who had been training only about a year got paired with Dave. Now she was well endowed up top and he ended up hitting her about 4 or 5 times in her breasts. She was reduced to tears and had to be excused and I got paired with Dave again.

    First thing he does after I attack is counter and blast into my abs with what should have been a controlled punch. Instead it's uncontrolled and painful. I leant forward and tell him to control himself or I will 'sort him'.

    Next punch comes in, smack ,same again and he's grinning like a Cheshire cat. We stand up and I promptly kick him in the balls. Incredibly cheap shot I know, especially as he never wore a box.He then collapses to the floor in a puddle. As he is laying there and people noticed what happened several muted cheers go out and a lot of contented mumbling and a couple of people even clapped a couple of times.

    I hadn't realised but the instructor was right behind me at the time and had seen everything...his response?

    "Ah, control Mr Carter, control..."
    Me "Oss, sensei"

    We dragged him off the floor and sat him on a bench. Before the session was over he got up, got changed and left. Didn't come back.

    Kevin the instructor knew exactly what I'd done and why. He must have tacitly approved as he didn't call me out on what he saw and told me there was no charge of the session that night when I went to pay...
     
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  11. spacetime

    spacetime Black Belt

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    Are you blaming Wallace for the level of his opposition???
     
  12. AndyMaBobs

    AndyMaBobs Brown Belt

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    Y'know your basement? Well right underneath that.
    Not really, you're assuming an awful lot - that everyone who spars to hard is a bully or trying to throw their weight around - which is nonsense. Some guys don't realise what is or is not appropriate for a sparring setting. Either way, be the adult. If you're in Bill Wallace's position, ask them to leave.

    Exactly.

    Everyone wants to assume that the guy who gets his ass kicked was some bully who had it coming, or someone who has malicious intent. I mean for fucks sake live in the real world - 'teaching a guy a lesson' is just another power fantasy for someone else who wants to be the gym hero and seem like the real alpha in the gym.

    It's all just ego and the less people pretend like engaging in fights with dumb ass sparring partners is a good thing, the better.

    Also the idea that kicking someones ass once will stop them being a dick in future is also very silly. In reality half the time they chalk it up to luck and will continue to be douchebags in the future. In which case it's best to just not engage with them at all.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
  13. Reyesnuthugr

    Reyesnuthugr Dominick Reyes Belt

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    Every single guy who escalates agression against a MT legend gets a similar treatment and everyone here seems to understand the fighting culture then. Try that sh* it Brazil. The only place where wrong-doing adults need diapers is in the ivory tower of the Western world, where people are so spoiled enough to be completely insulated to real-world consequences.

    I don't see why it's a tragedy for some rough idiot goofball to get back what they're dishing out-- it's not like they were some poor bystander, they're actively assaulting a teacher whom they signed up under. Why anyone spills tears for THESE types when there are plenty of actual victims really bothers me. I don't think rough instigators (full grown ADULTS, not even children) need or deserve to be coddled. In fact, to do so is to incentivize an ever-worsening society.

    ---

    When I started sparring, I was doing some of these rude things, and I a lot of the things I was doing I assumed were "okay" and just me being "clever". I got my ass HANDLED and it worked. It fixed my view and brought me to absolute reality, better than a library of words could have ever done. It was a great lesson, and I would not change it. It definitely DOES work. And that's why it is done.

    Forget your protective motherly instincts for a second. It goes far beyond that. The lessons that are learned through this are several, they are precious and irreplaceable.

    One VERY IMPORTANT lesson that you get from this is not only about fairness or respect, but HOW TO FIGHT. A fighter cannot have this crappy fake mindset if they want to be a real fighter. It doesn't work, they cannot learn because it's not based in reality; it refuses reality. There is only one way to learn the actuality of it, and that is NOT artificial new-world pampering and protecting from natural consequences (eg, actual learning).
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
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  14. Frode Falch

    Frode Falch Gold Belt Professional Fighter

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    The clash of two egos imo.

    One gets a pass for being a Legend. Thats not fair in my book
     
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  15. Reyesnuthugr

    Reyesnuthugr Dominick Reyes Belt

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    Frode, I remember you posting a video of you doing the same thing, except the other guy collapsed all the way to the floor. I thought for sure you would understand
     
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  16. Frode Falch

    Frode Falch Gold Belt Professional Fighter

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    Not the same thing imo. The guy i gave a semi hard lowkick was being a dick to my other sparring partners. Injuries waiting to happen.
     
  17. Reyesnuthugr

    Reyesnuthugr Dominick Reyes Belt

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    Well I'm glad we agree on that point.

    How do you know that tall dick in the OP wasn't being a dick to other sparring partners as well? It's a lot more likely than not.
     
  18. Frode Falch

    Frode Falch Gold Belt Professional Fighter

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    Yeah i guess. We dont know the back story.
     
  19. AndyMaBobs

    AndyMaBobs Brown Belt

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    Y'know your basement? Well right underneath that.
    It's nothing to do with protective motherly instincts and coddling and everything to do with just behaving like an adult.

    A big problem with this attitude is it always assumes that you're going to beat the ass of the dickhead sparring partner... unless you can't and then it develops into a fight and YOU end up getting laid out. This is what I mean, everyone who wants to 'teach the other guy a lesson' isn't doing so out of anything other than their OWN ego - to prove that they're the bigger dog in the yard. As a coach I cannot have that attitude in class. Most of the time this fantasy of one guy being mean in sparring, and then getting the shit kicked out of him by the gym hero, is never how this actually goes down, it's nearly always just two people, both of whom are over estimating their abilities, getting into a hard sparring session.

    If sparring gets out of hand in my class, I will break it up. It's not worth risk or injury to have one student get angry and start beating the other. EVERYONE needs to be humble, and if you're not humble, you can go. I'm not having gym wars over minor grievances.


    Exactly this.

    I should also point out that you didn't lay him out like Bill was trying to, Bill was trying to give this guy a concussion, hitting as hard to the head as he possibly could.


    I'm not opposed to a harder shot to 'calm someone down' in theory, it's just in reality most of the time it doesn't stop their and it just turns up the aggression overall - when you could just stop the sparring session and no one gets hurt.

    Anyhow - I won't be arguing this one any further - ain't enough time in the day to dispute every disagreement.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
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  20. Guestx

    Guestx Guest

    Mmm, I'm not sure about all that.

    I think Bill was meaning to inflict some pain and he was definitely putting some pop on those shots but I also think he was pulling his punches a fair amount. If he really wanted to KO this guy don't you think he could've done it?

    He was an undefeated kickboxing champion sparring a random weekend warrior at a seminar. I think if he wanted to totally lay that dude out he could've done it quite quickly, and if he was really punching with full power then he would have.
     
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