Warning Abusive/Fraudulent Muay Thai Gym (P.E. South Africa)

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by AndyMaBobs, Oct 25, 2016.

  1. AndyMaBobs Green Belt

    AndyMaBobs
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    Brief message to the moderators: If I have made this thread in the wrong place then please move it and apologies for the inconvenience, but this is the subforum I'm most familiar with and it relates directly to stand up. Thank you.

    ___

    The gym is Bushido Muay Thai. It operates out of a garage in Port Elizabeth. The coach Jordan Vevers claims to be the official representative of Muay Thai in South Africa. This has yet to be verified.

    Not only is he abusive towards his students he appears to have developed a cult like atmosphere in which he must be referred to as Kru after every sentence and has the students saying that they owe everything to him.

    This facebook status explains the abuse that one student has experienced in his short time at the gym:

    [​IMG]
    This is the photo of the scratch on his wrist from Vevers pressing the knife against it, while there are no severe injuries from it should still not be allowed to happen:
    [​IMG]

    The next Monday after one missed session after the decision to quit, the coach sent the following text message, the phone number has been blocked out for the sake of safety however an unblacked version of the print screen does exist as proof that the picture is not fraudulent.
    [​IMG]

    In addition to the abuse his facebook contains pictures of him fighting in shin guards with elbow pads no less, which is strange for an apparent seasoned pro. It seems that he has trained in Thailand, but has clearly did not take much away from it as he claims that his abusive training is "Thai Culture".

    Outside of the training methods being caveman esque. While this was not mentioned in the original status the student also told me that when pushing him to do 100 crunches while being struck with the Thai pad when the student said to Vevers that he was "not on his level" and that was why he was struggling, Vevers thought it appropriate to stand on the student.

    The student said that he did not have an issue with being pushed (although I believe they were pushing him too far for 5 days) but he took issue that he was being verbally abused and punished for not being able to complete the set.

    At the end of the session Vevers stated that he was very disappointed with the class and as punishment gave them the option of taking a kick to the body or to the thigh. The student that I'm friends with opted to take the kick to the thigh and Vevers kicked him bare shin in the leg, which left him walking with a limp.


    After sharing it to Sean Fagan of MuayThaiGuy.com and numerous professional fighters from my gym, they all agreed that the story should be posted online to Sherdog/Bullshido so that people who may live in the city don't go to that gym. There are obvious legal avenues that could be taken, but as I live in the UK and my friend in Africa, there is nothing I can do to help on that front. All we know is the gym should not be allowed to run as it is a threat to the public.

    ____

    I have done research into Vevers and there is very little online with the exception of what he has posted, there are no fight videos and nothing on him being the official south african rep from what I can find. Simply no one talks about this dude. We believe it to be both a mcdojo and essentially a cult. I have contacted Quentin Chong who is the head representative of Muay Thai in South Africa for more information on whether Vevers is a representative but with Vevers not in Chongs FB friends list, nor mentioned on Chong's website, it seems likely that they are not actually affiliated and that this is a false claim.

    I realise that I am speaking for someone else, and that can hurt the credibility of the claim (despite the evidence provided) but at this current time the student does not feel comfortable with going public online himself as the Kru threatened to come and find the student if he left the club.

    I will keep you posted on what Quentin Chong says to me about Vevers' status as a rep. If any of you have any more information or advice or can otherwise spread the world it would be greatly appreciated.
     
    #1
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2016
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  2. AndyMaBobs Green Belt

    AndyMaBobs
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    This is the full facebook status copies and pasted in case you are unable to read the small text on the printscreen:

    "Okay I've been thinking of just telling as many people as possible what I was put through last night.

    It's not me because of course this looks "weak" and I need to grow a thicker skin and so on but fuck it.

    What happened was wrong and this will serve as a warning to anyone who's interested in doing martial Arts.

    Recently I started training in muay thai again, the place i was going to seemed alright at first, motivated me kept me uplifted but last night it took a turn for the worst.

    Now I've mostly been getting positive feedback for the five days I've been training, but i ask a lot of questions and sometimes comments slip out and you know how I sometimes sound cocky when I don't mean to.

    So after the session is done and we're doing stretches I start getting chewed out for "disrespect" because I sometimes forgot to call the coach kru and because I sometimes make verbal observations or make offhand jokes to myself, never anything offensive or directed at any of them, anyway so I'm getting chewed out for disrespect and the "best" fighter got all huffy and slammed the mat with his hand every time I tried to defend myself or explain, says he wants to now beat the shit out of me.

    I ask what's with the violence so coach says "there's no diplomacy here, if I want wanker(not his real name but more fitting) to beat the shit out of you he will".

    "wanker, beat the shit out of him"

    So wanker gets up and charges at me and the coach tells him to stop.

    They continue to chew me out, I try again to make a point so he gets up starts swearing and makes as if he's gonna kick me in the head.

    then we clean out the gym and get changed, coach wants us in his office.

    The three others sit on the couch I have a beanbag on the floor.

    It's explained to me that this is the dunce chair and I'm the dunce of the night so I need to know that my place is beneath them.
    For the next hour and a half he and wanker take it in turns to tell me how I'm such a sheltered pussy and how I've never had the shit beaten out of me or experienced anything ever.

    Goes on to tell me he knew I was a pussy with a vagina(direct quote, guys insult game is pretty sad)

    Asks me what I do and I say nothing so he slaps me in the face.
    Did this six times in a row

    Wanker goes on about how my "backchat" and "being a know it all" is just me expressing arrogance and ego.

    At this point I mentioned my issues with self worth and general depression.

    Being the understanding caring being he is, coushes response was to punch the shit out of the cupboard give me a knife and tell me to kill myself, when I didn't he grabbed it held it to my wrist and asked if he should do it.

    I say no, so he puts the knife away and tells me I'm just bullshitting.

    They continue to tell how much of a little pussy I am for half an hour then he lets us go.

    As I'm packing up coach tells me I'm making good progress.

    Oh and here's a picture of where I was cut while he was holding the knife to my arm, too.
    Didn't notice it until just now, seeing it just fueled me to do this.

    Believe it or don't, think what you will.
    But be careful where you go when taking up martial arts."
     
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  3. Frode Falch Professional Fighter

    Frode Falch
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    Find another gym. Problem solved.
     
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  4. AndyMaBobs Green Belt

    AndyMaBobs
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    That is an answer to a question that is not being asked.
     
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  5. KBE6EKCTAH_CCP Arrow sash belt with Lederhosen

    KBE6EKCTAH_CCP
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    Meh that sounds like the scenario from a movie about some prison bare knuckle ring or some shit.

    Just hope that some real thai fighter challenges him and exposes dat kru for the thug that he is. Ffs.
     
    #5
  6. sourdiesel209 Green Belt

    sourdiesel209
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    Should have filled that gym with uppercuts
     
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  7. biscuitsbrah Black Belt

    biscuitsbrah
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    lol damn. Must have been scary
     
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  8. NVSemin Orange Belt

    NVSemin
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    well, lets start of with the FACT that Muya Thai is a cult like practice, similar to yoga. It has a certain dangerous spiritual component to it, no wonder, weakly minded individuals got possessed by evil spirits, make tattoos, want to spill blood, make cuts etc. I can hardly imagine Christians doing Maya Thai ... Of course, it happens, but there are clearly only few examples
     
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    Last edited: Oct 26, 2016
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  9. gotobread Purple Belt

    gotobread
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    This dude trained at Fairtex and Sinbi and he's talking about abusive training being part of "Thai culture". Okay, dog.

    Haha, okay!
     
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  10. Hagelslag2 Brown Belt

    Hagelslag2
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    That's a very messed up story. Also, wouldn't that count as threatening someone with a weapon? You can go to prison for that.
     
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  11. NVSemin Orange Belt

    NVSemin
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    In South Africa?
     
    #11
  12. Hagelslag2 Brown Belt

    Hagelslag2
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    Yeah, you're probably right...
     
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  13. Hogey Black Belt

    Hogey
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    So what pervented this guy from just not going to that gym and instead going somewhere else?
     
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  14. n.diazismylife1999 Brown Belt

    n.diazismylife1999
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    How should he have known ahead of time the coach is abusive...?
     
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  15. Hogey Black Belt

    Hogey
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    Hmm well I would think if everyone in this guy's garage is calling him kru after every scentence is a good indicator the dude might be full of shit/crazy.
     
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  16. j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

    j123
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    Like folks over here as well, he probably felt the free trial was good, then paid a year in full; Probably a month in the coach showed his true colors.
     
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  17. TheyAllFloat Orange Belt

    TheyAllFloat
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    Theres always two sides to the story and when one side sounds so bias it usually pays to listen to the other.
     
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  18. Knurd White Belt

    Knurd
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    I'm fairly new to this, so I didn't know what the warning signs were, seemed pretty normal to me and this whole thing blew up out of nowhere over the course of about two hours, everything before this was going quite well to be fair.

    As for the "why not just find another gym", well that's both quite difficult in my area and entirely not the point of making this public at all.

    It's not " I don't know what to do about this"

    It's "this happens and people should probably know about it when it does".
     
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  19. gotobread Purple Belt

    gotobread
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    Yes, he can certainly go to another gym (as long as there are other options in the area), but if this story is true, I think it's important to share so that other people don't make the same mistake.
     
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  20. Azam Purple Belt

    Azam
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    I don't really get why some are saying "why is this an issue and why didn't he go somewhere else - problem solved."

    Talking about the instructor - if his teaching/instruction is atrocious and he isn't qualified he should be outed for it. It's not like anyone here would keep quiet if this had happened with an unqualified mechanic who pretended he was a legit mechanic - especially more so if your potential for injury goes up - like it does in this scenario.

    For some reason with the martial arts community we tend to give people who do this kind of shit a free pass and say well just leave & go to another gym. It doesn't resolve the issue of the shitty instructor though does it who will just go on to do that to another unsuspecting person and perhaps give them a bad impression of martial arts in general or perhaps cause injury to a student.

    As soon as shit went down he left the gym anyway. I personally wouldn't have listened to the instructor about staying back or kept quiet with the other student and would have left as soon as the session was over.




    Tbh I think you did the right thing outing him if that was your experience. People should be aware of what kind of instruction they will get or type of instructor prior to walking in through those doors. It's weird how martial arts has no state or national regulatory body where shit like this can be dealt with - in every other industry you have regulatory bodies to ensure those within the industry are abiding by rules of conduct/safety but for some weird reason any tom, dick and harry in the martial arts community can teach and there is no regulatory body to even check if they are qualified to teach or whether they are conducting themselves in line with what standard practices are.
     
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