War Room Throwdown - Evolution vers.

Fawlty said:
It gets missed because we're animals too. If you accept evolution, you accept man's origins within it, or you don't accept evolution.
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One could argue that if you believe evolution applies to 99% of all life forms ever in the history of the planet then you believe in evolution.
 
WiolentOne said:
One could argue that if you believe evolution applies to 99% of all life forms ever in the history of the planet then you believe in evolution.
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People could argue all kinds of things that are wrong. I could argue that 99% of massive objects fall according to gravity, but if I believe it doesn't apply to me because of sky magic, I don't accept it.
 
Great. We get to spend 50+ pages arguing over non-scientific concepts like 'kinds' and TheComebackKid's false, duplicitous and self-serving misrepresentation of the concepts of micro- and macro evolution.
 
Fawlty said:
People could argue all kinds of things that are wrong. I could argue that 99% of massive objects fall according to gravity, but if I believe it doesn't apply to me because of sky magic, I don't accept it.
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The problem with this attitude is it dissuades people from crossing over who would otherwise have potential.

I think 99% is a huge number. It's something to work with. Ostracizing people tends to get you more nothingburgers.
 
I won't debate this where randoms can chime in. It's too easy to get misrepresented. I'm more then welcome to discussing it via pm tho :)
 
oleDirtyBast4rd said:
I won't debate this where randoms can chime in. It's too easy to get misrepresented. I'm more then welcome to discussing it via pm tho :)
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Another duck! You just tag homeboy you're debating and ignore others. No need to let the randoms keep you down
 
RedAger said:
Another duck! You just tag homeboy you're debating and ignore others. No need to let the randoms keep you down
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Duck? I already sent him a message. If you want to discuss this pm me. I don't duck shit
 
WiolentOne said:
I'm not intested in a formal debate since the actual science of the subject is not my forte. I just have a general understanding of the theory as most people do.

Something to keep in mind is the comebackkid has been beaten down for years on the subject of evolution in the WR. Hes been ravaged and returned time and time again slowly getting better and better. He's learned from a lot of his mistakes and most importantly - to him - hes learned to become a better sophist.
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I've made the same arguments from day one tho. Perhaps I've gotten better at articulating them or more adept at dealing idiots and trolls but the facts and reasoning has always been the same. (macro) Evolution has always been wrong for the same reasons.
 
Fawlty said:
People could argue all kinds of things that are wrong. I could argue that 99% of massive objects fall according to gravity, but if I believe it doesn't apply to me because of sky magic, I don't accept it.
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Well too be fair the 99% acceptance view isn't just some out-there hypothetical, it is what many including the Catholic church held until recently they've been throwing a bone to evangelical style creationism.

If people want to believe in the modern synthesis of evolution plus a little squirt of God or aliens to start the whole thing off and another little squirt to turn great apes into conscious hominids, I don't take huge issue with that. Those are some of the areas the scientific understanding is thinnest after all. And not that I am an authority on public science education but I've taught evolution at a uni level.
 
Evolution isn't the origin of life it's the origin of species. At some point you can't show what some specific lifeform evolved from but have to determine the chemistry or divine intervention at the root of it's creation.
 
TheComebackKid said:
I've made the same arguments from day one tho. Perhaps I've gotten better at articulating them or more adept at dealing idiots and trolls but the facts and reasoning has always been the same. (macro) Evolution has always been wrong for the same reasons.
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What are those reasons?
 
Checkmate atheists!



Too soon?
 
WiolentOne said:
We've got man figured out.

However, the origin of life itself, now that's where we've come up short.
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I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you could not be farther away from the actual truth of the matter. We don't even know how many individual "human" species cohabitated during the last 400k years (us, Neanderthal, Denisovan, etc...all quite likely being of equal intellectual capacity), let alone the age of our own home sapien sapien line. The human story changes and gets pushed back in time almost weekly these days. Articles like the one below pop up regularly...

https://www.theguardian.com/science...-to-neanderthal-genomes-over-200000-years-ago
 
ocean size said:
Well too be fair the 99% acceptance view isn't just some out-there hypothetical, it is what many including the Catholic church held until recently they've been throwing a bone to evangelical style creationism.

If people want to believe in the modern synthesis of evolution plus a little squirt of God or aliens to start the whole thing off and another little squirt to turn great apes into conscious hominids, I don't take huge issue with that. Those are some of the areas the scientific understanding is thinnest after all. And not that I am an authority on public science education but I've taught evolution at a uni level.
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A very reasonable and positive approach...not that it needed approval.
 
ocean size said:
Well too be fair the 99% acceptance view isn't just some out-there hypothetical, it is what many including the Catholic church held until recently they've been throwing a bone to evangelical style creationism.

If people want to believe in the modern synthesis of evolution plus a little squirt of God or aliens to start the whole thing off and another little squirt to turn great apes into conscious hominids, I don't take huge issue with that. Those are some of the areas the scientific understanding is thinnest after all. And not that I am an authority on public science education but I've taught evolution at a uni level.
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I don't take too much issue with god in genesis (though it's obviously pretty stupid), because genesis of life is unexplained, so it's a very ordinary god of the gaps thing that we've seen nonstop throughout human history. If the churches would just admit that "god" made us by evolution through other species, it wouldn't even be an issue (that's how gods of the gaps have traditionally died out). However, to deny man's evolution is a whole different ballgame imo. These are people who refuse to believe we share common ancestors, and to me that clearly constitutes a denial of evolution. If they can suspend it arbitrarily, they don't believe it.
 
WiolentOne said:
The problem with this attitude is it dissuades people from crossing over who would otherwise have potential.

I think 99% is a huge number. It's something to work with. Ostracizing people tends to get you more nothingburgers.
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My understanding and experience is that evolution deniers are not very persuadable. Their views certainly deserve to be ostracized, because those views are deceptive and false, strongly anti-intellectual and anti-science, and at this point in light of our collective knowledge, inexcusably childish.
 
Grenz said:
Great. We get to spend 50+ pages arguing over non-scientific concepts like 'kinds' and TheComebackKid's false, duplicitous and self-serving misrepresentation of the concepts of micro- and macro evolution.
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It's that kinda stuff that keeps me coming back here.

Srsly this shit gives me full on Lolz.
 
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