WAR ROOM LOUNGE V21: ♫♪ Tom Lehrer Awareness Week ♪♫

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It was vindication in the sense that she had claimed that she heard stories about a distant NA ancestor, and she was accused of fabricating that. The test confirmed that she actually is part NA, which strongly suggests that she was, in fact, told that.

Generally, I don't like the focus on "optics" over just right and wrong. Factually, the test appears to have proved that she was telling the truth (or at least strongly suggests it). I am skeptical that anyone knows how it'll play.

True it’s just an opinion that I think it plays horribly but it derives from the very different way I view what she has presented herself as. Saying she has a distant relationship is fine, but much more than that was implied in her listing. She was wrong and she is spinning here.
 
She never made the appearance of being a racial minority. She made the appearance of having family traditions passed down from a Native American ancestor. If you have a dope barbecued ribs recipe that your family says was passed down from your black great great grandfather and you represent yourself as having some African American cultural heritage on that basis but do not identify as black and do not note yourself as being black in census data, school admissions forms, etc., you're not claiming to be a racial minority.

She identified herself as such in her professor listing. You are making it sound like she was taking part in the passing down of oral traditions or something like that. I think she should have played this very differently. It comes off as, you see I am 1/x % NA, I am pocahontus. Trump just looked like a bigot before, and the lies being told by the right about admissions helped her. This does not advance her cause imo.
 
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Limbo be more like

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These are the exact same claims?
  • I have a distant relative who was Native American.
  • Because I have a distant relative who was Native American I am Native American.

Ignoring how ridiculous that is, where's the evidence that in these places where she claimed to be a minority that the basis of that designation was stipulated? We have to deal with her actual claims here, dude. Not some hypothetical shit that could change things if they were actually true. The screenshot of her cookbook entry said she claimed to be Cherokee. Not relative of Cherokee from multiple generations prior. Hard to believe UPenn, Harvard, and the law directory included any such further information either. Unless you can show she wasn't responsible for the claim of being Cherokee in the cookbook it's already shown that she made a stronger claim than what you're admitting to.



@IngaVovchanchyn, @Anung Un Rama, @Madmick

You three I regularly see being accused of dishonesty by Jack. Thought y'all might enjoy watching him do the same stuff he denigrates others for. He claimed Warren never claimed anything more than she had a distant relative who was Native American. I'm saying that's not correct because it's a much stronger claim to say one is Native American (which is what her listing herself as a minority amounts to). Please set me straight if you think my understanding of linguistic nuance here is off base.
In addition to that, which is incontrovertible, it doesn't seem to matter that Warren listed herself as Native American on the Association of American Law Schools directory.

Yeah, that's JVS. Deny, lie, troll. Don't expect him to admit that he was wrong.
 
You're out of your depth when it comes to logic (and too small to admit it or too dumb to realize it) or you're the one who's lying. You decide.

You know that all of that is false. For one thing, you've already both acknowledged that my point is correct and denied ever contradicting it. So where else is there to go? Seriously, there is nothing left to argue about other than your weird grudge against me.

In addition to that, which is incontrovertible, it doesn't seem to matter that Warren listed herself as Native American on the Association of American Law Schools directory.

Yeah, that's JVS. Deny, lie, troll. Don't expect him to admit that he was wrong.

What kind of a POS accuses a man of lying without even being able to cite a single lie? I get that you're just sticking up for your tribe, but that's going way too far.
 
In addition to that, which is incontrovertible, it doesn't seem to matter that Warren listed herself as Native American on the Association of American Law Schools directory.

Yeah, that's JVS. Deny, lie, troll. Don't expect him to admit that he was wrong.

I avoided the law directory for the most part because it wasn't necessary to use anything other than what Jack introduced himself. And because he's who he is best to allow the least amount of static that he can amplify into distortion.

He won't admit it, but I know. And Jack knows. And smart people like you and @Gandhi know. And every time Jack tries to denigrate folks by painting them as doing what he's just done we'll all know. I'm good with that.
 
I avoided the law directory for the most part because it wasn't necessary to use anything other than what Jack introduced himself. And because he's who he is best to allow the least amount of static that he can amplify into distortion.

He won't admit it, but I know. And Jack knows. And smart people like you and @Gandhi know. And every time Jack tries to denigrate folks by painting them as doing what he's just done we'll all know. I'm good with that.

Putting Madmick alongside Gandhi (and presumably over JVS) in terms of intelligence and intellectual honesty? That instantly makes you look like you're trolling disingenuously.

I haven't paid rigorous attention to your quarrel, but I've never known JVS to argue dishonestly or project his own shortcomings: at least not to an extent greater than anybody else. Likewise, I've never considered you, nor Mick for that matter, to be a tribalist. I think your perspective generally extends from your identity, like anyone else, and I think Madmick's impulses genuinely do fall in line with right-wing identity politics and anxiety about them and his immaturity kind of just gives the color of an irrational partisan.

But, more than anything, I think you're all just getting fussy and could use one of @Fawlty's famous no-hands back rubs.
 
I haven't paid rigorous attention to your quarrel,

Then don't interject as if you've something to add. You don't know our history either. Go back and educate yourself instead of coming at me with uninformed arrogance.

No offense. My team lost and I'm not feeling hospitable.

<Gordonhat>
 
Putting Madmick alongside Gandhi (and presumably over JVS) in terms of intelligence and intellectual honesty? That instantly makes you look like you're trolling disingenuously.

PS. Both those dudes are high IQ and come from a different perspective than either you, me, or Jack. They're both as smart or smarter than you or I. I've no fanbase, unlike Jack. Nobody following the debate has come to his defense. I have these two in my camp. And you're gonna accuse me of trolling based on your disagreement?


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That's right all of you, keep penetrating each others cortex.... I am enjoying the flavors splash all over our wonderful essence...

 
PS. Both those dudes are high IQ and come from a different perspective than either you, me, or Jack. They're both as smart or smarter than you or I. I've no fanbase, unlike Jack. Nobody following the debate has come to his defense. I have these two in my camp. And you're gonna accuse me of trolling based on your disagreement?


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I'm not taking JVS's "side," nor am I putting any stock in your supporter tally. I am calling out you disingenuously posting things because you're in a tizzy: namely that JVS is intentionally obfuscating and that "smart people" can see it, despite your position only being explicitly cosigned by one poster, who is frankly not exceedingly intelligent in my opinion and certainly not exceedingly rational or intellectually honest. But, invigorated by your cattiness, I did take the time to look over your disagreement, and starting here you began very clearly arguing dishonestly, as you backtracked on the previous posts and, amid a tentative agreement, tried to slyly substitute in a different position, that JVS was in agreement about the claim of racial minority status. Actually, even before that, starting here you pretty clearly walked up to the edge of the cliff on your argument (that Warren had putatively checked a "'race' box," which would reflect a self-designation as a racial minority, rather than a claim of remote ancestry giving some color of diversity) without even realizing it.

Also, Gandhi would seem to be purporting to agree with you as a matter of political optics, not as a matter of the internal logic of your argument. On that basis, you could put Kafir-Kun on the opposing side. And I personally think @Kafir-kun is more or less equal to one @Gandhi =)
 
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