War on poverty. | Page 2

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by NC252, Jul 14, 2017.

  1. NC252 Orange Belt

    NC252
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    https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000
    Doesn't look like full employment to me. Are you saying that the able-bodied people who choose not to work and you choose to be poor do not affect the numbers?
     
    #21
  2. djacobox372 Gold Belt

    djacobox372
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    Helping people cost money... so what? what's your point? What better thing do we have to spend our ridiculous wealth on?
     
    #22
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  3. Jack V Savage Funklord of the USA and the Nicest Guy on Sherdog

    Jack V Savage
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    Full employment doesn't mean that all retirees, stay-at-home parents, people in prison, college students, etc. are working.

    And "able-bodied people who choose not to work" might affect the numbers in some way, but it's a very, very small percentage of the total population of Americans in poverty. Less than 5%.
     
    #23
  4. ultramanhyata Silver Belt

    ultramanhyata
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    Some people just have a needle phobia and so can't sell their plasma.
     
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  5. NC252 Orange Belt

    NC252
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    Many Americans including myself work very hard to provide the ridiculous wealth that our government enjoys. I am not sure of the answer but I know that if you throw that much money at something in such a short amount of time and does not make a dent then something is wrong with the system that we are using to try to fight poverty.
     
    #25
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  6. Badger67 Taxidea taxus

    Badger67
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    They have tried this, and wasted money, to catch very few people.

    https://www.aol.com/article/2016/02...elfare-recipients-and-the-results-w/21314760/

    http://time.com/3117361/welfare-recipients-drug-testing/

    https://thinkprogress.org/what-7-st...-drug-testing-welfare-recipients-c346e0b4305d

    1 million $ plus spent testing, to kick off very few people. If you saved 20K a person by kicking them off, and have a 0.02% rate of drug usage or lower, you are wasting a lot more money than you could ever save for the program.
     
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  7. Panmisiek Purple Belt

    Panmisiek
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    Unemployed people shouldn't under any circumstances receive money for being unemployed. Instead, create local offices for public service. For example unemployed people without proper employment could work anywhere between 10-20 hours a week doing simple jobs, cut grass in parks, collect rubbish, sweep streets and instead of money they could receive vouchers for food, drink, have electricity, water and gas bills paid to certain amount until they find proper employment. Vouchers only for basic needs necessary for survival, no alcohol, no drugs and so on until they find proper employment.

    Giving people money its a lot more costly than vouchers I mentioned. People will still work to have their needs satisfied and local office will have people to deal with simple jobs around area. For example in case of heavy winds or thunders, remove fallen trees from roads and other stuff.

    And if you dont wanna work at all, then starve. Less leeches leads to healthier and prosperous country.
     
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  8. NC252 Orange Belt

    NC252
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    I've never seen any statistics on this even though I have looked where do you get 5% from?
     
    #28
  9. Jack V Savage Funklord of the USA and the Nicest Guy on Sherdog

    Jack V Savage
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    It's lower than that, I'm sure. I'm eliminating everyone in poverty who obviously doesn't fit in that category (elderly, children, disabled, full-time students, unpaid caretakers, people who work but are supporting others who don't, and people who are between jobs at some point in a year and miss the poverty line because of the gap). That gets us down to probably below 5%, but I don't know what percentage of that remainder actually fits your description. Definitely not 100%.
     
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  10. Kafir-kun Gold Belt

    Kafir-kun
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    I'm sure you'll find a strapping, probably Canadian, man who will talk about you that way.
     
    #30
  11. lecter Controlled Opposition

    lecter
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    Doesn't sound too bad.
     
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  12. Kafir-kun Gold Belt

    Kafir-kun
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    Would you really prefer to live in any of those shitholes over the US? I have a cousin who lives in Brazil and is well off and even she has thought about moving over here because of the violence.
     
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  13. lecter Controlled Opposition

    lecter
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    If I did, I would live there right now. So I assume the answer is no.
     
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  14. Kafir-kun Gold Belt

    Kafir-kun
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    This seems like an obvious point if you think about it but it for someone reason its a point that's often forgotten in these discussions.
     
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  15. ripskater Steel Belt

    ripskater
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    There will always be poverty. We should just strive for opportunity. Some will take advantage of opportunity and some will ignore opportunity to keep accepting that welfare check and forever be hostage to it.
     
    #35
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  16. Jack V Savage Funklord of the USA and the Nicest Guy on Sherdog

    Jack V Savage
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    I overlooked it myself for a while. Started with a thread here when some anti-safety-net clown made a comment about the percentage of some benefit program who didn't work. I looked into it, and saw he was right but that the majority of recipients were children and disabled people, and that started me looking into the issue more. Like you say, it should be obvious, but it didn't reflect how I thought of poverty. You can also look around the developed world and the numbers are pretty similar. There are vastly different levels of post-transfer poverty (different strength safety nets), but pre-transfer poverty is around a quarter to a third everywhere (with age demographics driving the difference). Having a market-based income-distribution system is the best way to grow the wealth of the country as a whole, but it's inevitably going to leave a large portion of the country in poverty without a safety net (which every country with a market-based economy has independently developed).

    A lot of proposed solutions really miss that point. In addition to the infrastructure thing, I see a lot of people talk about education. The percentage of 25-plus-year-olds with college degrees in America has gone up almost 500%, but it has had no noticeable effect on poverty rates. Why? Because it doesn't change the fact that a lot of people have no income because they are kids, elderly, etc. And there's a zero-sum aspect to it, too. We're a richer society, but labor costs are embedded in almost every good or (more obviously) service we buy. So households with lower incomes will inevitably have trouble buying necessities.
     
    #36
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017 at 8:44 AM
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  17. kpt018 Gold Belt

    kpt018
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    @Jack V Savage doing good work in this thread to correct the record. There is a lot of bullshit out there about poverty and political leaders are basing bad policy on it. I think if people take the time to learn the truth about who is in poverty, what that means and how they got there they would likely have an opposite view on what we do about it.
     
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  18. sickc0d3r Brown Belt

    sickc0d3r
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    It literally has to be repeated every time one of these threads pops up.
     
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