Wal-Mart to raise age to purchase firearm to 21

[Gregolian]

Ya that's a tough one that really makes no sense. being able to fight for your country at 18 but not being able to purchase a firearm here at home until 21. They are a bit different though. Individuals in the military are highly trained and are around peers and people they generally respect. An 18 year old kid at home sometimes has nothing but time to think about how shitty his/her life is and that the possibility to buy a gun is always present.

I think it's a slippery slope and maybe trying things is better than doing nothing.

I don't want to disparage people who are in the military but my understanding is unless you're infantry or in a combat unit post basic most military guys, if they're like desk jockeys or something similar, rarely if ever have to re-qualify on their firearms.

Like, there was a photo of an Army colonel or Major making the rounds about a year ago when he went through re-qualifying on the Berretta and he was holding the damn gun so close to his face in a picture that if he pulled the trigger the back of the slide would have smashed into his right eye socket and blinded him in that eye.

And the ranking system is pretty cool sounding to civilians but doesn't mean much. Like, you hear "he achieved expert in basic" for the Texas shooter and layman are like "wow, he must be a good shot" when in reality all he scored in basic was like 20 of 25 in the shooting portion.

 

[tonni]

I'd prefer that it isn't fucking glorified the way MTV and shit have done it.

I prefer that about a lot of things to be honest.

 

[SammyPops]

Do I understand correctly: an 18 can serve in the US army and use a firearm but a private company can restrict that trained adult's right to buy a firearm?

America is really weird sometimes.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

heya PainIsLife,

without googling it, wasn't he the boy who killed his mother and took her guns? so, there were guns in the home, i figure.

i guess you could say that he had access to guns - which in the end, is really the problem (for folks who are outraged about school shootings), isn't it?

if you're a normal person in the United States (that is to say, you don't have a record of violent crime or institutionalized due to crazyness), you can pretty much get a gun - and if you're so inclined, you can go kill a bunch of people.

- IGIT

In that case shouldn't we be limiting the ownership of guns to those without children under 21? Just to be safe lets make it no kids under 21 in your neighborhood or within a 5 mile radius? Where do you stop?

I'm not saying do nothing, but we're being silly if we think raising the age to 21 stops school shootings.

 

[zebby23]

In that case shouldn't we be limiting the ownership of guns to those without children under 21? Just to be safe lets make it no kids under 21 in your neighborhood or within a 5 mile radius? Where do you stop?

I'm not saying do nothing, but we're being silly if we think raising the age to 21 stops school shootings.

It won't stop school shootings but if it stops just 1 isn't that a good thing? I understated the argument of the 2nd amendment but even amendments have caveats

 

[PainIsLIfe]

It won't stop school shootings but if it stops just 1 isn't that a good thing? I understated the argument of the 2nd amendment but even amendments have caveats

It would be a wonderful thing, but how do we know if it even stopped 1 unless some kid comes out years later and says I was going to shoot my school, but I couldn't get hold of a gun?

I'm not against an age limitation (I think it's intellectually inconsistent), but I hope people are being realistic about the effect of it.

 

[IGIT]

hi PainisLife,

In that case shouldn't we be limiting the ownership of guns to those without children under 21? Just to be safe lets make it no kids under 21 in your neighborhood or within a 5 mile radius? Where do you stop?

you're preaching to the choir, my friend.

I'm not saying do nothing, but we're being silly if we think raising the age to 21 stops school shootings.

lol.

i'm the one saying "do nothing".

i don't think anything can be done - not with the rationale of this country. so i don't think we should bother.

this country has;

a) access to firearms with astonishing ease.

b) a fierce defense of the right to own a gun. its not only a right that's protected by the law of the land - its supporters are incredibly passionate about it. for many of them, its the one and only Amendment that matters.

c) a form of young male that exists in no other advanced countries. like, there is no country on the planet (even those with high gun ownership per capita) that has our problem of young men who want to shoot up schools.
idk the cause of this unique American phenomenon.

when you add these three elements together, you're going to get school massacres now and then. not alot, it seems, but one or two per year.

that's life in the USA, and there is no legislating it away with half measures. i'm not angry about it or anything - i see it the way the Chinese and Japanese view this country; i'm bemused at our ability to endure the sacrifice of young lives in our schools for our "freedom".

- IGIT

 

[zebby23]

It would be a wonderful thing, but how do we know if it even stopped 1 unless some kid comes out years later and says I was going to shoot my school, but I couldn't get hold of a gun?

I'm not against an age limitation (I think it's intellectually inconsistent), but I hope people are being realistic about the effect of it.

I completely understand your position but we could know when an 18 or 19 year old walks into a gun store and gets denied. After his denial the gun store owner alerts the FBI who then find a bunch of shit in his bedroom talking crazy.

I think on some of these things you won't really know the effects until you try it. I personally do not see anyway we can stop all school shootings. If someone wants a gun bad enough and wants to shoot up a school they will do it

 

[BudKing8806]

It won't stop school shootings but if it stops just 1 isn't that a good thing? I understated the argument of the 2nd amendment but even amendments have caveats

I see this alot saying if it stops just 1 isn't that worth it? What about stopping some of the murders in Chicago? Handguns are used far more often in violent crime than any rifle. Why is it people only care about school shootings? Truth is, you don't give a shit about any of the lives lost. All you all want is to be able to say you got some gun legislation passed, regardless of whether it has any effect.

 

[Scerpi]

heya PainIsLife,

without googling it, wasn't he the boy who killed his mother and took her guns? so, there were guns in the home, i figure.

i guess you could say that he had access to guns - which in the end, is really the problem (for folks who are outraged about school shootings), isn't it?

if you're a normal person in the United States (that is to say, you don't have a record of violent crime or institutionalized due to crazyness), you can pretty much get a gun - and if you're so inclined, you can go kill a bunch of people.

- IGIT

lol... Why do you have your name at the bottom?

There's lot's of ways to go out and try to kill lot's of people. Some are terrifyingly easier than buying a gun. The obvious being aquiring a rental moving truck and driving through a crowded event.

However, you're also completely correct. Adam Lanza supposedly was diagnosed with severe mental health issues that were ignored by his mother. His mother was directly responsible for that tragedy, so what could be learned from that? That outside intervention is required if family members refuse to treat a mentally ill person?

Because that shit happens all the time. For every drug addict out there, there's usually an enabler mother in the background involved (or other family member like grand parent) that allowed and sometimes facilitated the situation to disintegrate.

 

[IGIT]

I see this alot saying if it stops just 1 isn't that worth it? What about stopping some of the murders in Chicago? Handguns are used far more often in violent crime than any rifle. Why is it people only care about school shootings? Truth is, you don't give a shit about any of the lives lost. All you all want is to be able to say you got some gun legislation passed, regardless of whether it has any effect.

ahoy BudKing8806,

i think the bolded is half right, at best.

obviously no one is going to care about a bunch of homicides in Chicago, particularly if its black on black crime.

thats dog bites man.

a bunch of white middle class children getting blown into bits of meat, bone and viscera?

thats man bits dog.

that's going to resonate, of course - and get major play on the television (which is natural, i guess).

this is the kind of event that momentarily awakens the need for folks to do something - or in the absence of doing something - saying the right things about wanting to do something.

it'll pass. although if corporate America turns its backs on NRA dogma, things might be changing. you never know.

there is a number floating around out there in the ether...and that is the number of school shootings and deaths Americans will humor in the pursuit of "freedom".

maybe its two school massacres per year. maybe its a dozen. at some point, people will have had enough - even gun enthusiasts.

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

lol... Why do you have your name at the bottom?

There's lot's of ways to go out and try to kill lot's of people. Some are terrifyingly easier than buying a gun. The obvious being aquiring a rental moving truck and driving through a crowded event.

However, you're also completely correct. Adam Lanza supposedly was diagnosed with severe mental health issues that were ignored by his mother. His mother was directly responsible for that tragedy, so what could be learned from that? That outside intervention is required if family members refuse to treat a mentally ill person?

Because that shit happens all the time. For every drug addict out there, there's usually an enabler mother in the background involved (or other family member like grand parent) that allowed and sometimes facilitated the situation to disintegrate.

hi Scerpi,

if you're saying that nothing outside of major changes in how the 2nd amendment is interpreted will facilitate change, i agree completely.

if and when that happens, the change won't come from Capital Hill. it'll be ordinary people who decide to go another direction; it won't be jackbooted thugs arriving in the night to take the guns - it'll be more like the way smoking has gone out of fashion.

- IGIT

 

[AznTrojan]

I think they're also going to stop selling AR's too.

they stopped selling them in 2015

 

[ultramanhyata]

Bought my first gun(12 gauge single shot H&R) at 16(just recieved my fac) across the border in North Dakota.

How many students were you able to kill before they swarmed you during the reloads?

 

[HockeyBjj]

Who are you to tell someone how they feel inside? Have you done the biological research in order to actually speak intelligently on the topic or are you speaking from a religious viewpoint? If your viewpoint is driven by religion we clearly have nothing to discuss.

It's funny how you go from a gun debate to a persons gender. It really makes no sense to me. Take emotion out of it which would remove the gender debate and lets focus solely on raising the age to 21 to buy a rifle. Why not err on the side of caution? You have to be 21 to drink because being able to drink comes with great responsibility. You can drive a car at 16 but there are restrictions such as how many passengers you can have, how late you can drive. Guns are no different and there should be restrictions.

I am Christian but my basis of being strongly against this transgender push on impressionable kids is from my wife who is a middle school counselor. I never thought it was a big deal at all before our relationship got serious. It's always the kids with negative home lives or other issues that they're avoiding facing head on and flock to this trans business as a way to escape and find acceptance from a different group. Pretty much every single time the child begins having even worse issues after at least experimenting with trans, and never faces the root of their problems. And being open to the idea of trying out a trans lifestyle is being pushed on impressionable kids and I don't agree with that. It should be steering them how I grew up, where it was ok for a boy to like girl things, and vice versa, and that doesn't make them any less of a man just because they like drama club rather than football

I brought up the gender since this thread was more focused on the age of responsibility than just purely on the gun (which was a welcome change and made for some decent discussion so thank you TS) and I feel while we're talking about age restrictions due to responsibility like driving, voting, military, drinking, etc should also have a limit of drug induced bodily changes before we as a community feel a person is knowledgeable and experienced enough to make such a drastic decision.

Guns do have restrictions on them. 18 for a long gun, 21 for a pistol. Background checks. Etc. Moving ARs to the 21 age line would simply be re-classifying them more as a pistol than a bolt action gun or shotgun which I'm not opposed to really since the precedent is certainly there and hasn't been an issue. Should be done through law changes, not just specific stores having their own policies to potentially discriminate, was my opinion in the Dick's thread before I got de-railed by stupidly engaging with Rational Poster who thought a 223 was a large caliber, highly dangerous round

 

[HockeyBjj]

Buying an AR-15 isn't the same as shooting clays with a shotgun. Anyway, kids are able to shoot guns at almost any age and should be encouraged to do. Especially education about gun safety and the dangers associated with them.

I'm about as Libertarian as they come and hate having any party dictate how people live their own personal lives. I've lived by the belief that a person's rights end only where they impede another person's rights.

There's always been suicidal people... always. But this trend of going out and hurting/killing as many people as possible on your way out is mind boggling. Why? What's the root cause of it? Does the idea of it give these people meaning in a life where they feel life has no meaning? No one has seemed to figure out the why....

Other types of murder make sense... even if it's sick and twisted. Revenge, Jealously, Sociopath, During the act of committing a crime... When you see these stories in the news, you can a least understand why they did it, even if the whole thing repulses you. These mass killings, especially kids going into schools, make almost zero sense to me and I've yet to hear an explanation of the "Why".

Revenge? For what, being bullied? I guess maybe, but why kill random people and not the bullies?

I have to admit, this shit is starting to eat at me. However, I can't see a solution that will actually work.

A ban on semi-auto actions would include everything from shotguns and pistols, not just rifles like a mini-14 or ar-15. I mean, people focus on AR-15 because of how they look, but in reality they just a semi-automatic rifle... nothing more, nothing less. I have a Ruger 10/22 rifle that shoots 22LR rounds... And it would be included in such a ban and that would be ridiculous.

I guess focusing on clip size is an idea, but how the fuck would you enforce it? Or bullet caliber size?

This last incident in Florida is probably worst of all to me because there were red flags all over the place and the means to stop him were in place... and they all failed.

And now, the overreaction is all over the charts. Will anything come of it? I doubt it.

Walmart and Dick's policy of the 21 year old age line isn't about AR15s. Neither sell those at all any more. It is about their sale of shotguns and bolt action rifles hence why I used the clay pigeon example

I strongly agree with everything else you said there though. Especially about this phenomenon of public shootings. You said it very well. Other murders you can understand, if you're sickened by it, but shooting up a bunch of randoms makes no sense at all to an even slightly logical mind and we should dig to find out what is causing this. Violence has always been in human nature sadly, but this here is new for whatever reason

 

[spamking]

Wtf? You guys didn't go on a murderous spree? Weird.

Hmm I wonder if you had a parent that taught you about proper gun handling?

And respect . . . don't forget about that.

 

[spamking]

I tend to err on the other side of the argument. 18 for everything.

However I will make the argument for 21 for everything (voting, driving, age of consent, all of it) it makes teen pregnancy illegal, takes away the biggest killer of 16-20 year olds in automobile accidents and keeps people with zero real world experience from voting.

Voting sure . . . making teen pregnancy illegal is a crazy idea . . . just like bumping the driving age to 21. Some 16 year-olds can hand driving and others can't . . . even at 21 or older.

 

[spamking]

It might be. My google-fu didn't find anything solid one way or the other for gun dealers and public accommodation. Will be interesting to see what happens in the courts when this inevitably becomes a problem.

But I was noting that the "Muslim Free Zone" gun shop was supported by people here who felt that it was okay for gun dealers to discriminate against protected classes of public people. If that's their belief, then age discrimination shouldn't be a problem either.

Being a home-based FFL I don't sell to anyone under 21 anyway . . . I do business by appointment only and won't bother with you if I don't know you.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

making teen pregnancy illegal is a crazy idea

Not really. If you can't be trusted to make good decisions for yourself you can't be trusted to shape the character of a child.