Verdum - end of BJJ at the top MMA level

[moreorless87]

I don't mean that it's becoming useless. That was hyperbole. I mean that it's an accessory martial art, not a base anymore. No one will successfully be able to specialize in it anymore. It's just not that effective like boxing, wrestilng, etc. are.

To be fair nobody can specialise in any art anymore, a striker needs decent grappling defence to be effective, a wrestler needs either decent striking or decenmt sub grappling to be effective.

I think we arguably see this more clearly with BJJ because we've had a lot of big names like Roger Gracie move to MMA in a somewhat half hearted way.

 

[EndlessCritic]

BJJ is not dead, it's ubiquitous.

 

[BigMuffler]

Actually Anderson and Machida can no longer dominate with striking so striking is already dead.

 

[linvillegorge]

BJJ will always be a big part of MMA. People have been saying this martial art or that martial art won't be successful in MMA or are done in MMA for pretty much as long as MMA has been around. Then a fighter comes along with that martial art as his base and has big time success and turns that idea on it's head. Machida and Wonderboy come to mind for karate. Pettis for TKD.

 

[007]

Literally every fighter in the UFC trains BJJ. You're going full retard.

I don't think that John Phillips did, lol

don't mention Ortega,

He has 7 subs on his record and maybe you forgot he choked the life out of Cub Swanson

Volkov is even close to top level competition;

The stupidity in this comment. UNBEATEN in the UFC

 

[yookfarb]

I don't mean that it's becoming useless. That was hyperbole. I mean that it's an accessory martial art, not a base anymore. No one will successfully be able to specialize in it anymore. It's just not that effective like boxing, wrestilng, etc. are.

I don't know if any MMA fighter by nature specializes in anything but most of them come from a bjj "base".

 

[blaseblah]

I don't mean that it's becoming useless. That was hyperbole. I mean that it's an accessory martial art, not a base anymore. No one will successfully be able to specialize in it anymore. It's just not that effective like boxing, wrestilng, etc. are.

No one can specialize in just one art and compete at the top level. Everyone cross trains now. If you are a boxer who doesn't know BJJ you are getting subbed.

 

[superpunch]

No one can specialize in just one art and compete at the top level. Everyone cross trains now. If you are a boxer who doesn't know BJJ you are getting subbed.

Yeah but a boxer who learns some BJJ and wrestling messes people up on the feet and progressively wins the fight.

A wrestler who learns some striking and BJJ gets guys down, wears them out, and pounds their heads in, and progressively wins the fight.

A BJJ guy that learns some striking and wrestling is still at a neutral fight.

Boxing wins because the fight starts standing. Wrestling wins because it gives the ability to make the fight not standing.

BJJ is left just hoping to get lucky and get the fight where they can do stuff. At the same level of cross-training as other guys, they have to rely on luck while other styles start with an advantage or train to get the advantage.

 

[ViktorArm]

he is comin

 

[Anomonis]

Wrestling is way more useful than practicing grappling in your pajamas with a bunch of geriatric Brazilians.

 

[blaseblah]

Yeah but a boxer who learns some BJJ and wrestling messes people up on the feet and progressively wins the fight.

A wrestler who learns some striking and BJJ gets guys down, wears them out, and pounds their heads in, and progressively wins the fight.

A BJJ guy that learns some striking and wrestling is still at a neutral fight.

Boxing wins because the fight starts standing. Wrestling wins because it gives the ability to make the fight not standing.

BJJ is left just hoping to get lucky and get the fight where they can do stuff. At the same level of cross-training as other guys, they have to rely on luck while other styles start with an advantage or train to get the advantage.

It's not "some BJJ". These guys train everything, all the time. You have a fundamental misunderstanding about what fighters actually do in the gym.

You don't even need to train boxing to succeed in mma. You absolutely need to train BJJ.

 

[Jayziz]

Just because you don't see submissions quite as often as in the early days of MMA it doesn't mean that brazilian jiu-jitsu is dead. Much the contrary, almost every fighter trains bjj on a regular basis. If not, you wouldn't be able to compete in the UFC.

 

[fedoriswar37]

Lmao. Literally every high level mma fighter trains BJJ. But okay

 

[loyalyolayal]

Bait, bait everywhere.

 

[Deleted member 457759]

I've been hearing this for literally 15 years.

 

[Human Bass]

His deep half scrambles were very good, clearly helped him to last longer.

 

[SirKratos]

BJJ will never end at the top level. You just might not recognize it, because obviously you don't pay attention to defensive BJJ.

And the guys you mentioned, Volkov and Whitaker. Do you really think they would get to where they are without high level BJJ?

 

[blaseblah]

Just because you don't see submissions quite as often as in the early days of MMA it doesn't mean that brazilian jiu-jitsu is dead. Much the contrary, almost every fighter trains bjj on a regular basis. If not, you wouldn't be able to compete in the UFC.

And there were 4 submissions on last night's card. I guess TS only watched the main event.

 

[Headkicktoleg]

Yeah but a boxer who learns some BJJ and wrestling messes people up on the feet and progressively wins the fight.

A wrestler who learns some striking and BJJ gets guys down, wears them out, and pounds their heads in, and progressively wins the fight.

A BJJ guy that learns some striking and wrestling is still at a neutral fight.

Boxing wins because the fight starts standing. Wrestling wins because it gives the ability to make the fight not standing.

BJJ is left just hoping to get lucky and get the fight where they can do stuff. At the same level of cross-training as other guys, they have to rely on luck while other styles start with an advantage or train to get the advantage.

BJJ is 90% positional control, not submissions. The first thing you learn is position over submission. If a guy is bridging and escaping side control that's jiu jitsu. If a guy counters and puts him back into side control that's jiu jitsu. Saying jiu jitsu doesn't work at a high level because guys aren't winning by submission is like saying wrestling doesn't work at a high level you don't hit naked doubles in the middle of the cage.

 

[ncboy]

Diaz couldn't get conor to the ground because his offensive wrestling suck. While Mendes took him down repeatedly.

bjj itself can't get you to the top of the mountain.