International Venezuela, The Socialist Dystopia, v2: The region's worst humanitarian crisis in decades

Their supporters and their families have food and guns. The rest of the country does not.

You know what's the most fucked up thing? A large part of this refugees exodus probably voted for Maduro in the first place, and now they are running away from the disaster that they unleashed, instead of actually doing something about it.

Unfortunately, there's no way for the countries taking in refugees to verify who's a Chavista and who are the real victims.
 
You know what's the most fucked up thing? A large part of this refugees exodus probably voted for Maduro in the first place, and now they are running away from the disaster that they unleashed, instead of actually doing something about it.

Unfortunately, there's no way for the countries taking in refugees to verify who's a Chavista and who are the real victims.
everyone wants a free lunch but things fall when your unable to take other people's money to fund these free things. Its so frustrating to see a society head towards the same direction when things have been getting worse for so long.
 
You know what's the most fucked up thing? A large part of this refugees exodus probably voted for Maduro in the first place, and now they are running away from the disaster that they unleashed, instead of actually doing something about it.

Unfortunately, there's no way for the countries taking in refugees to verify who's a Chavista and who are the real victims.


That is my biggest frustration with any democratic system when peopls litteraly vote to thrash democracy.
 
The Crisis Next Door
Mass exodus of desperate Venezuelans is overwhelming neighboring countries
Story by Anthony Faiola , Photos by Ivan Valencia | March 2, 2018

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Thousands of Venezuelans are pouring out of their crippled nation in one of the biggest migration crises in Latin American history, causing growing alarm in the region and prompting neighboring countries to rush thousands of soldiers to the border.

The massive scale of the exodus is being compared to the flow of Syrians into Western Europe in 2015. And, just as in that crisis, countries overwhelmed by the flood of new arrivals are beginning to bar their doors.

“This is a humanitarian crisis,” said Willington Munoz Sierra, regional director of the Scalabrini International Migration Network, a Catholic charity running a shelter in this border city, where desperate Venezuelans are now living in parks and cheap motels or sleeping on sidewalks. “In Venezuela, children are dying. People are starving and being persecuted. What they’re getting from us is a door in the face.”

Nowhere is the crisis more acute than here in Colombia, where 3,000 troops are fanning out across the 1,400-mile border to contain an influx of Venezuelans fleeing a collapsing economy and an increasingly repressive socialist regime. Roughly 250,000 Venezuelan migrants have surged into Colombia since August, with 3,000 a day still arriving.

The sheer numbers have led to a backlash in Colombian cities and towns, prompting the national government last month to suspend the issuance of temporary visas for Venezuelans. Colombian authorities are now launching operations in which dozens of Venezuelans a day are captured and expelled.

“Let’s go!” Maj. Jarlinzont Zea barked into his walkie-talkie one recent afternoon, jumping out of a police truck in this city of 650,000. Simultaneously, dozens of Colombian officers and migration officials poured out of vehicles and stormed a park, sending panicked Venezuelans scattering.

One slight young woman, in a black tank top and denim shorts, didn’t move fast enough.

“What’s your name?” an officer demanded.

“Andie,” she said, quaking.

“Papers,” insisted the officer.

“I don’t have any.”

“Where are you from?”

“Venezuela,” she said, near tears. “Please. I — can’t. I can’t go back.”

‘I cannot feed my children’


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Latin America has seen mass exoduses before. In the decades after Fidel Castro’s 1959 revolution, about 1.4 million Cubans fled the island, many heading for the United States, where they transformed the social and ethnic fabric of Miami. During the 1980s and 1990s, more than 1 million people — more than a quarter of the population — were displaced during El Salvador’s civil war.

Yet there is little precedent in the region for the speed and intensity of the Venezuelan migrant crisis.

After the leftist firebrand Hugo Chávez became president in 1999, thousands of Venezuelans — especially from the upper classes — moved out of the country. But the current exodus is far more dramatic.

Under Chávez’s handpicked successor, President Nicolás Maduro, Venezuela has reached a breaking point, with lower oil prices and economic mismanagement leading to the world’s highest inflation rate and spiraling indexes of poverty and malnutrition. At the same time, Maduro’s government has jailed and allegedly tortured opponents, sparking a wave of political asylum seekers.

Nearly 1 million Venezuelans have left their country over the past two years, according to the International Organization for Migration, with experts citing a surge during the second half of 2017, when the economy took a sharp turn for the worse. That figure is in addition to the hundreds of thousands who departed between 1999 and 2015.

“Our migration levels are now comparable to Syria or to [the Rohingya going to] Bangladesh,” said Tomás Páez, an immigration expert at the Central University of Venezuela. More than 1 million Syrians, Afghans, Iraqis and others fleeing war and poverty poured into Europe in 2015, and 650,000 Rohingya Muslims have recently fled persecution in Burma, seeking refuge in Bangladesh.

Globally, the growing Venezuelan diaspora is reshaping cities from Miami to Buenos Aires to Madrid. But most Venezuelan migrants are staying in Latin America, where countries are handling a dire situation in different ways.

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Peru, for instance, is offering temporary resident permits to Venezuelans, granting them the right to work. Last year, nearly 149,000 Venezuelans entered the country, up from 40,000 in 2016, according to Peruvian government statistics.

“We’re going to Peru because I cannot feed my children in Venezuela,” said Liuiben De Navarro, a 28-year-old Venezuelan seamstress who, on a recent morning, crossed the Colombian border at dawn with her two young children.

She and a host of other Venezuelans — army deserters, laborers, nurses — arrived to a barrage of offers from vendors peddling trips on rickety buses to cities such as Quito, Lima and Santiago. A few feet away, desperate Venezuelans sold scrap metal to Colombian junk merchants. “We buy hair!” yelled another Colombian merchant as a young Venezuelan woman sat in a chair under a tree, blushing as the scissors cut her long locks, destined to become a wig.

“I love my country,” De Navarro said. “But we cannot get food.”

In Brazil, President Michel Temer declared a state of emergency after a visit to his country’s border with Venezuela last month and pledged $20 million plus a new field hospital to ease the crisis. Four shelters on Brazil’s border are now packed with Venezuelans, officials say, with an estimated 40,000 additional Venezuelan migrants residing in Boa Vista, the closest big Brazilian city to the border.

Officials say they will treat the newcomers as Brazilian citizens. But Temer also vowed to double the number of troops at the border.

In October, overwhelmed Panama imposed new visa requirements on Venezuelans, making it far more difficult for economic migrants and asylum seekers to enter the country. In January, 308 Venezuelans were expelled or agreed to return to their countries when faced with deportation. From 2010 to 2016, Panama deported only 196 Venezuelans in total, according to government statistics.

“We’ve been coming here en masse, like people fleeing from a war zone,” said Marcos Ardon, 47, a former business owner in Venezuela now working in a Panama City coffee shop. “You’re on the bus and you hear people speaking with a Venezuelan accent everywhere now. You feel like [Panamanian] people don’t like it, that we’re too many here.”

A border crackdown

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Colombians flocked to Venezuela to find work in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s. Now the job-seekers are Venezuelans heading in the opposite direction.

Venezuelans have enjoyed access to special permits good for two years in Colombia’s border region, allowing them to stay up to seven days at a time. Facing severe food and medical shortages at home, most have stocked up on supplies, or visited hospitals, before returning across the border.

But Colombian officials say those visas became a lure for Venezuelans looking to start a new life — bringing a dramatic surge across the border that reached a peak of 90,000 people a day in December. In early February, President Juan Manuel Santos suspended the issuing of new temporary visas and declared a massive militarization of the border.

The moves cut the daily flow almost in half — though critics say it has only motivated migrants to cross at dozens of illegal entry points along the border, putting them at risk of harm from guerrillas and criminal bands. Locals, meanwhile, are accusing the Venezuelans already here of harming the economy and driving up crime.

“We need to close the border,” said Nancy Pineda, a 30-year-old Cucuta fruit seller. “They come with fruit they buy for nothing in Venezuela and sell for prices here that I can’t compete with. They come here, killing and robbing Colombians. We need take our city back.”

That is just what Colombian authorities say they are doing — staging operations several times a day in which they round up migrants lacking valid visas. Jozef Merkx, representative for the U.N. high commissioner for refugees in Colombia, said the agency is concerned about the operations. But because Venezuela is not at war, its people are harder to classify as refugees in need of international protection.

“People fleeing Syria were generally seen as refugees, but that’s not the case with Venezuelans,” Merkx said. “Venezuela is not being bombed. It has some of the dimensions [of a refugee crisis], but not all Venezuelans are refugees.”

‘You have to go’

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On a recent morning in Cucuta, however, the scene resembled a refugee crisis, with women clutching babies and exhausted families toting old suitcases streaming across a border bridge. The most desperate headed straight to the hospital.

“We don’t know where to turn,” said Jose Urriola, 30, standing next to his 18-month-old daughter, Mavis, who languished in a hospital bed. The family had recently arrived from Venezuela. The little girl was malnourished and also had developed a life-threatening heart blockage. The hospital was petitioning national authorities for funds before proceeding with the costly operation.

Winston Martínez, deputy director of Colombia’s migration agency, said the country was not conducting “mass deportations.” Instead, he said, it was carrying out special operations designed to limit the number of Venezuelans without valid visas. He noted that the government is offering Venezuelans who have passports the chance to apply for special resident visas and has already awarded more than 160,000.

“Like any country, we need to have a safe and secure border,” Martinez said. But many Venezuelans weren’t able to get passports in their homeland because of the cost and long wait.

The operations are sending as many as 100 migrants a day back to Venezuela.

Shortly after Andie, the woman in the black shirt and jean shorts, was detained by police, they loaded her onto a truck. About 15 minutes later, she and three dozen other migrants were released at a border bridge swarming with mosquitoes.

One by one, the migrants walked back toward Venezuela as the Colombian officers watched.

And then only Andie was left.

“You have to go,” said a female officer. More than a dozen Colombian officers surrounded the thin Venezuelan.

“I can’t,” Andie said, her voice breaking. “Please. I’m pregnant, and we won’t survive there.”

The officer paused.

“I’m sorry, honey, but you need to go back.”

Andie nodded, then turned. Sobbing and clutching her stomach, she walked across the bridge.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...torn-country-en-masse/?utm_term=.1fb813fb26da
 
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If Trump ever grew some balls and stopped buying their oil, then i would expect shit to really hit the fan.

As far as I know, President Trump has never bought a barrel of Venezuelan heavy crude. Nor does any of his companies. Nor does the U.S government.

Here is the full list of all the U.S refineries that imported heavy crude from Venezuela, all of which are private corporations:

Venezuelan-Refiners.jpg


As i said, no sanctions, just stop buying their oil.

What you are really suggesting is that President Trump should ban all the private companies in the United States - such as those listed above - from doing business with an entire sector of another country. That is in fact the very definition of economic sanction, particularly of the oil embargo variety.

And I would welcome it, while calling it exactly what it is.


U.S. considering broad oil sanctions on Venezuela
Matt Spetalnick, Alexandra Ulmer, Patricia Zengerle | February 28, 2018

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President Nicolas Maduro gestures as he registers his candidacy for re-election at the National Electoral Council (CNE) headquarters in Caracas, Venezuela February 27, 2018.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Trump administration is considering imposing sanctions on a military-run Venezuelan oil services company and restricting insurance coverage for Venezuelan oil shipments to increase pressure on socialist President Nicolas Maduro, a U.S. official said.

With Maduro running for another term in an election that Washington and its allies regard as a sham, the United States is weighing sanctions that would target Venezuela’s vital oil sector beyond what has been done before, the official told Reuters on Wednesday. Some measures could come before the vote and others could be imposed afterwards.

The official, who is close to U.S. internal deliberations on Venezuela policy and who spoke on condition of anonymity, would not rule out an eventual full-scale ban on Venezuelan oil shipments to the United States, among the toughest of oil-related sanctions.

“I think (it would cause) a fairly strong shock to the oil market in the short term,” the official said.

The official stressed that no decisions have been made and that any U.S. action would take into consideration potential harm to ordinary Venezuelans, already suffering from food shortages and hyperinflation, and the country’s neighbors as well as the impact on the U.S. oil industry and consumers.

Venezuela’s Information Ministry did not respond to a request for comment on potential further sanctions.

Maduro, himself subject to sanctions last year, regularly laughs off Washington’s disapproval and blames the U.S. “empire” for his country’s economic woes, saying it is trying to undermine Venezuela’s leftist government.

Venezuela was the fourth largest supplier of crude oil and products to the United States in 2017, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. Its crude oil sales to the United States last year were the lowest since 1991, according to Thomson Reuters trade flows data.

“Oil sanctions are not taken lightly,” the official said. “This would be a fairly strong escalation for U.S. policy, whether it’s a complete oil sanction or salami slices of different graduated steps.”

President Donald Trump’s administration is also considering possible sanctions against additional military and political figures, including Socialist Party No. 2 Diosdado Cabello, the official said.

Experts say sanctions on individuals have had little or no impact on the Venezuelan government’s policies.

Washington’s crafting of new sanctions comes as Venezuela’s main opposition coalition is boycotting the election, citing “fraudulent” conditions. Venezuela’s election board postponed the presidential vote from April 22 to the second half of May on Thursday after an agreement between the government and some opposition parties.

Critics had accused Venezuelan authorities of holding the vote early in the year to wrong-foot the opposition. The U.S. official had said before news of the date change that even if Venezuelan authorities delayed the election by a month or two, it was not likely to prompt Washington to hold back on sanctions.

ECONOMIC PAIN

The best tool for making the Venezuelan government feel economic pain, U.S. government sources say, is through “sectoral” sanctions, such as financial measures announced in August that barred U.S. banks from any new debt deals with Venezuelan authorities or state-run oil giant PDVSA.

Venezuela’s foreign minister, Jorge Arreaza, said in Geneva on Tuesday that U.S. sanctions are making foreign debt renegotiation more difficult and causing “panic” at global banks.

Among the possible new U.S. targets is Camimpeg, Venezuela’s military-run oil services firm, the official said. Camimpeg provides PDVSA with assistance in drilling, logistics and security and was founded by the military in 2016 although little is known about its activities.

The opposition says the armed forces are a nest of corruption and accuse Maduro of trying to buy the support of military chiefs by giving them increasing control of the OPEC nation’s crude reserves, the world’s largest.

Another option would be sanctions aimed at putting restrictions on insurance coverage for oil tankers and oil cargos involving PDVSA, the official said.

Oil exports are typically protected by insurance on tankers as well as on the cargo. Without insurance, a vessel cannot navigate in international waters, which means Venezuela’s oil exports would likely be curtailed. Sanctions on cargo insurance would also hurt because PDVSA has a limited tanker fleet.

The Trump administration is still considering blocking the sale of lighter U.S. crude and refined products that Venezuela mixes with its heavy crude and then exports, the official told Reuters.

“There’s a host of additional sanctions that could be imposed. The president has all those before him,” U.S. Senator Marco Rubio said in an interview with Reuters. Rubio has pushed for Trump to take a tougher line on Venezuela than former President Barack Obama.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...l-sanctions-on-venezuela-source-idUSKCN1GD3LR
 
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As far as I know, President Trump has never bought a barrel of Venezuelan heavy crude. Nor does any of his companies. Nor does the U.S government.

Here is the full list of all the U.S refineries that imported heavy crude from Venezuela, all of which are private corporations:

An embargo implies the US goes out of its way to force others to not buy and trade with a particular country.

Im talking more about just preventing US companies to import Venezuelan oil, you dont even need to apply a sanction through congress, just put an import tariff like its done with Chinese steel.
 
What a thread, best read around here in a long time.
 
How are the gun rights there? Would things be different if they had something like the Second Amendment?
 
How are the gun rights there? Would things be different if they had something like the Second Amendment?
Yes I think it would be much equal.

Because rightnow only the loyalist have guns
 
Venezuela’s collapse causes humanitarian and security crisis for Colombia
By Mark L. Schneider | March 05, 2018

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The massive migratory flow from a collapsing Venezuela can be measured by the 91,000 people estimated to have crossed Colombia’s border on a single day in mid-February or by the pain of Delida, a 46-year-old woman whose family is a victim of that collapse, and hundreds of thousands like her.

Three statistics from Migración Colombia, the government’s DHS/ICE equivalent, convey the magnitude of the exodus. In 2012, 2,000 Venezuelans sought to travel through Colombia to Ecuador. In January, according to Migracion Colombia, that number was 56,147 — a rate that would reach about 674,000 by year’s end. Many of those fleeing Venezuela go on to Peru and Chile — and from the words of the migrants, anywhere but a return to Maduro-run Venezuela.

The second statistic shows how many like Delida are seeking to remain in Colombia. In the last six months of 2017, 68,739 applied for Migracion Colombia’s Special Permanent Permission (PEP). In the first 37 days of 2018, 86,833 applied. Migracion Colombia already has issued 1.6 million short-term visa-like permits for those who say they will go back to Venezuela after working a few days or getting emergency medical care or just eating a decent meal.

Delida was in charge of cooks at one of Bishop Victor Manuel Ochoa’s eight emergency feeding centers. A friendly woman, Delida’s smile disappeared and tears appeared as she explained why she left Venezuela. She said that her 22-year-old son had been shot by the Venezuelan national guard while he was on his delivery motorcycle. “They killed him when he wouldn’t give it to them,” she said. He left two small children. With constantly soaring prices (the IMF now predicts 13,000 percent inflation in 2018) making it impossible to provide for them, she had fled to Colombia five months ago with her 18-year old daughter. The two send back money for her daughter-in-law and grandchildren.

Juan, a 52 year-old rail-thin tall mechanic from Maracay, said hyperinflation had put everything out of reach. When he couldn’t pay for the next tire patch with the money earned from repairing the last tire, he left. He has no intention of returning. Scarce food is available only to those who have the “patriot” carnet distributed by the military. The migrants at the church center explained that the carnet had three codes, one to be checked after voting — the right way.

Juan was helping direct migrants waiting patiently in lines to receive their one meal. Each day some 600 migrants start lining up at 5:30 a.m. for coffee and a roll at the outdoor warehouse-like facility with makeshift gas stoves and wooden tables and chairs set out on the stone-covered dirt floors. They are given the chit that allows them to return for the real meal at 10 a.m.

“No woman and no child ever will leave here without a meal no matter how many show up,” Bishop Ochoa told me recently. Parishioners are the source of most of the food and, along with the Venezuelan migrants themselves, prepare the meals. The bishop’s one request was more stoves.

The impressive voluntary efforts by the diocese, the Scalabrini International Migration Network, the Colombian Red Cross, International Organization for Migration and the Colombian government’s initial responses — all practucally heroic given the challenge — are not enough. Some 110,000 Venezuelans, mostly women and children were vaccinated last year in the Norte de Santander department alone, since immunization against measles, polio and diphtheria — along with measures against malaria, dengue, chikungunya and zika — are near absent in Venezuela, particularly for the poor. More is required now, including pre-natal care to identify high-risk pregnancies and avoid needless deaths.

Fortunately, President Juan Manuel Santos Calderón, having traveled to Cúcuta three weeks ago, has called for a major international response — and the magnitude of the humanitarian and security challenges clearly require speed, generosity and wisdom. While the licit and illicit commerce across that almost 1,400-mile border is traditional. With no passport formally required between the sister cities of Cúcuta and San Antonio, fewer migrants are returning to Venezuela.

Leaving Venezuela, migrants use seven formal monitored crossings like the Simon Bolivar Bridge into Cucuta, or more than 200 smuggling paths, with now 1,000 to 3000 staying in Colombia daily, according to Colombian officials. Having walked along one of those paths with Colombian police to the mostly dry riverbed separating the two countries, it was clear that not only pedestrians but motorcycles and trucks also can be used to smuggle cattle, gasoline and anything else into Colombia, plus and narcotics or stolen minerals into Venezuela..

Colombia already had the task of implementing a complicated peace accord that ended a five-decade conflict with the FARC guerrillas, while battling other illegal armed groups — the ELN and EPL insurgencies and paramilitary-like transnational criminal gangs like the Clan de Golfo — all financed by cocaine and human trafficking, kidnapping and extortion. The complicity of many at the highest levels of the Maduro administration’s largely military-controlled trafficking has been documented by the United States. The Colombia military just denounced Venezuela’s providing sanctuary to ELN leaders and alleged involvement of two Venezuelan troops in the latest ELN bombing in Barranquilla that resulted in the deaths of six police and some 20 wounded.

Colombia’s initial extra military deployment of 3,000 troops and border police undoubtedly will serve to monitor the illegal crossings more closely. However, with easily traversed scrub brush, river and mountain borders, a halt to migration and to security threats from Venezuela cannot be stopped by Colombia, only change in Venezuela can end those pressures.

http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article203654959.html
 
Venezuela opposition calls for protest against presidential vote
March 8, 2018



CARACAS (Reuters) - Venezuela’s opposition is calling for a national protest later this month against a “fraudulent” election it says is stacked in favor of President Nicolas Maduro, the first major mobilization since last year’s wave of street protests.

A recently-formed umbrella group called the Broad Front For A Free Venezuela, which includes opposition parties as well as students, union activists and university professors, called for the March 17 demonstration at a Thursday gathering.

The country’s main opposition parties, which are boycotting the May 20 vote, stopped calling protests last year after four months of street clashes with security forces left more than 120 people dead but failed to force Maduro’s resignation.

“We announce the protest against fraud for March 17,” said Victor Marquez, president of the Association of University Professors, one of the organizations in the umbrella group. He called the May 20 vote an effort to “prevent the change of president and the socio-political model that causes misery.”

Most opposition parties are boycotting the election on the grounds that it does not provide conditions for a fair vote.

They note that the two most popular opposition leaders are barred from holding public office, various parties have been outlawed and the election board has consistently favored the ruling Socialist Party.

However, former opposition governor Henri Falcon is running in defiance of the boycott, spurring criticism that he is a Trojan horse for Maduro. Falcon insists he will win and denies that he is colluding with the government.

Venezuela is suffering an unprecedented crisis as its socialist economic system collapses, leading hundreds of thousands to flee the country as hyperinflation and chronic shortages leave citizens unable to eat or get medical attention.

Maduro says international media are exaggerating the situation and his country is the victim of an “economic war” led by the opposition with the support of Washington.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...otest-against-presidential-vote-idUSKCN1GK2Y7
 
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It makes you think what maduro thinks will happen to him. like he has fucked up so bad and have been brutal that he cannot just wash it away. He is not a stalin or mao where he the world world doesnt know what he is doing and his own people dont either and he has nothing good to point to. Does he think he can just live quitely after power or what? or maybe he can
 
I hope a rooftop voter gets to cast a ballot this year in Caracas

To be honest, with all these dead children in Venezuela, I'm actually surprised no angry and dispaired fathers even attempted to off Maduro yet when he's constantly parading around the country.

For a region that used to dominate headlines for People's Revolutions not long ago, the reaction from the everyday Venezuelans to this national calamity is incredibly relaxed, as if they have already accepted the same fate as the North Koreans.
 
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i was just in colombia. i met 3 different venezuelans and each of them in the course of conversation said they wish the u.s would invade their country and take it over to set up a new government. not sure if this fits in here at all, just thought it was crazy to actually hear people say they want to be invaded, but you can certainly understand it.

of course once we did, people would shit all over us
 
of course once we did, people would shit all over us

well yeah, you guys (US) are only good at invading (but you've been failing even at that recently, considering whats going on in Syria)
after you invade someone you leave the country in worse state than it was hence everyone shitting on US
 
i was just in colombia. i met 3 different venezuelans and each of them in the course of conversation said they wish the u.s would invade their country and take it over to set up a new government. not sure if this fits in here at all, just thought it was crazy to actually hear people say they want to be invaded, but you can certainly understand it.

of course once we did, people would shit all over us

Yep. Everyone loves the "invade and overthrow" part.

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The "set up a new government" part...not so much.
 
i was just in colombia. i met 3 different venezuelans and each of them in the course of conversation said they wish the u.s would invade their country and take it over to set up a new government. not sure if this fits in here at all, just thought it was crazy to actually hear people say they want to be invaded, but you can certainly understand it.

Venezuelans voluntarily voted for Maduro and put him in power, knowing exactly who he is and what they are getting, despite all the warnings.

Venezuelans should be the ones fighting to get rid of him if they suddenly change their mind about the socialist dystopia that they have chosen.

That is my biggest frustration with any democratic system when peopls litteraly vote to thrash democracy.

And if Venezuelans don't think the Democracy that they so carelessly threw away is worth fighting for, and kept waiting for somebody else to hand it to them on a silver plater, then they sure as hell don't deserve it.
 
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