Use "Hir" or Transgenders can get you fined by police

[fromTheAshes KoSkater]

Regular Frederick Douglas you are over here! A waking talking joke of human being if these are the types of ( non ) issues that trip your trigger.

WE SHALL OVERCOME..................................................insensitive grammar.

It's more than grammer and youve been brainwashed by the positive image sent out of all this on TV
when there are some ugly things happening...

1. Adolescents not even old enough to get tattoos are now being given sex hormones by medical workers to shut off their growth. Poising the youth for some odd ideology
2. Kids who still believe in Santa Claus are now being fed weird, confusing ideas in school like being asked what their gender identity is...like you can choose
3. Fallon Fox, a male being allowed to compete with females and beat them up.
4. When a society stops believing in logic, reason and society is when it all goes to Hell... this is what happening to the Nazis they stopped believing in reason and made up rules based on illogical genetic not based in nature like this stuff.

 

[Neph]

If you spoke to or referred to an African American as a n***er repeatedly could you be fined?

 

[Deleted member 409801]

It's more than grammer and youve been brainwashed by the positive image sent out of all this on TV
when there are some ugly things happening...

1. Adolescents not even old enough to get tattoos are now being given sex hormones by medical workers to shut off their growth. Poising the youth for some odd ideology
2. Kids who still believe in Santa Claus are now being fed weird, confusing ideas in school like being asked what their gender identity is...like you can choose
3. Fallon Fox, a male being allowed to compete with females and beat them up.
4. When a society stops believing in logic, reason and society is when it all goes to Hell... this is what happening to the Nazis they stopped believing in reason and made up rules based on illogical genetic not based in nature like this stuff.

Trying to figure out if you quoted the wrong person or if your reading comprehension is poor......maybe both ?

 

[lifelessheap]

What I find funny is, how all conservatives are like hurr durr there are only two genders, when there are in fact people who are genetically intersexual. Maybe it's about time they get their proper pronoun.

Sorry to hear about your condition.

 

[Alphaboy]

That's not propaganda, and that's not fascism. Just definitionally, whether you support it or not.

These are employment discrimination and harassment regulations. Just like you can't call a black employee a racial slur to harass them, you can't call a trans woman a guy just to harass them. Discrimination protections for housing and employment have been around for decades.

Yea... Using fake pronouns are not the same thing as historical racial slurs. Not even close.

 

[glenwo2]

Who refers to someones or "Him" or "Her" when they're talking directly to them anyway?

Anyway, this law is pointless dog and pony show... It'll never actually be enforced.

And if it ever was... would even stand up to the lowest levels in an appeals court.

But that's what they're counting on :

Citizens either unable to afford Legal counsel(cost $$$$) or just don't have the time so they end up paying the $500 fine.

This looks like another NYC Money-Grab with the Mayor's fingerprints all over this.

 

[bufetadanacara]

A dude in a dress simply isn't a normal thing and I refuse to pretend it is.

 

[Ornife]

This comparison doesn't really hold up well at all.

I call trans-women men, because they are men. I'm not trying to harass them, but neither do I feel inclined to go along with the pretense that they are women.

They are indisputably a male as a consequence of their karyotype, but since gender is a social construct they could still justifiably identify as a women. It's the difference between quantitative and qualitative information.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

They are indisputably a male as a consequence of their karyotype, but since gender is a social construct they could still justifiably identify as a women. It's the difference between quantitative and qualitative information.

1. To the extent that gender is a social construct, it is a necessary and important social construct. It should not be enforced by law, but neither should it be dismantled by law.
2. Gender-confusion advocates play fast and loose with terms that refer to both sex and gender, such as "woman", and try to conflate or to distinguish between sex and gender interchangeably, as suits their need. But woman refers to an individuals sex, and to the extent it is a gender, it is where gender overlaps in meaning with sex.

 

[Ornife]

1. To the extent that gender is a social construct, it is a necessary and important social construct. It should not be enforced by law, but neither should it be dismantled by law.
2. Gender-confusion advocates play fast and loose with terms that refer to both sex and gender, such as "woman", and try to conflate or to distinguish between sex and gender interchangeably, as suits their need. But woman refers to an individuals sex, and to the extent it is a gender, it is where gender overlaps in meaning with sex.

If the words man and women specifically refer to biological sex than you are entirely correct in asserting a trans-women is incapable of being a female/women. See, now I'm just confused in regards to the meaning of these words. I'm just going to start referring to people as either XX or XY from now on.

 

[Sano]

Ah yes, the staggering number of roughly 0,30% of the US population that are trans, with non binary estimated at around 25% of that, so about 0,07% of the population. The likelyhood of anyone meeting a real person wanting you to call them "zir" or whatever (and I agree that it is ridicules) is almost non existent. The way you guys fetishize this shit is frankly quite disturbing.

Btw, is this the same as with bill C-16 where it gets completely misrepresented and blown way out of proportion? Also, the article is two years old, who's been fined?

 

[fromTheAshes KoSkater]

They are indisputably a male as a consequence of their karyotype, but since gender is a social construct they could still justifiably identify as a women. It's the difference between quantitative and qualitative information.

Gender is not a social construct

 

[fromTheAshes KoSkater]

Ah yes, the staggering number of roughly 0,30% of the US population that are trans, with non binary estimated at around 25% of that, so about 0,07% of the population. The likelyhood of anyone meeting a real person wanting you to call them "zir" or whatever (and I agree that it is ridicules) is almost non existent. The way you guys fetishize this shit is frankly quite disturbing.

Btw, is this the same as with bill C-16 where it gets completely misrepresented and blown way out of proportion? Also, the article is two years old, who's been fined?

If Laws unfair it's unfair... what does that have to do w how many times it may happen?

 

[Ornife]

Gender is not a social construct

Okay. Can you elaborate?

 

[Deleted member 159002]

THe first paragraph shows that the OP is full of shit.



Intentionally and consistently. After a request to do so.

This requires that the worker or tenant specifically request the use of a pronoun. Then the employer/landlord has to intentionally refuse to use the pronoun and they have to do so in a consistent manner.

So, just forgetting won't get anyone in trouble. Even just forgetting repeatedly won't get anyone in trouble. Not knowing that the person is trans or what their preferred pronoun is won't get anyone into trouble. The person must say to themselves "I know that this person specifically requested something and I'm going to make a concerted, ongoing, effort to not honor that request."

A person should be able to refer to someone born with testes and no ovaries as a man/him/he as many times as one wants because that's what such a person is.

 

[panamaican]

A person should be able to refer to someone born with testes and no ovaries as a man/him/he as many times as one wants because that's what such a person is.

I thought about that and came to the other conclusion because of the "request" requirement.

If I ask you to refer to me as Panamaican and you keep calling me Pancakian, you're probably doing it to be an asshole. And if you're my boss or my landlord then my position relative to yours is inferior enough that I might not be able to do anything about it without jeopardizing my well-being. You might fire me, give me a bad performance report, raise my rent exorbitantly or just not renew me. Race examples are always strong. Chinese tenant asks to be called "Joe" (something that I've seen - Asians with ethnic names who ask to be called by an American name), the landlord insists on referring to him as the "Chinese guy". If the Chinese tenant keeps making the "Please call me Joe," request - how long can the landlord ignore that before it crosses over into some type of harassment?

 

[Trotsky]

1. To the extent that gender is a social construct, it is a necessary and important social construct. It should not be enforced by law, but neither should it be dismantled by law.

So it's a normative problem to you. It would seem to be a normative problem for everyone: but one on the basis of courtesy and refraining from harassment (in this case within the confines of a legal relationship with some power disparity), rather than deconstructing biology or social roles.

But here's the thing that I would like to pose to you: I don't believe you're a woman. I truly do not, based on your opinions and on the demographic cross section of MMA fans and internet forum users generally. Yet, I don't constantly call you a man or quote your posts and irrelevantly question your claim to be a woman. I don't refer to you as "he" or bring up what I believe to be your gender or sex. I don't do that because that would serve no purpose other than to harass you. And you would, perhaps rightfully, report my posts and bring it to the attention of the forum moderators. And, if you asked me to stop and I kept on doing it, they would penalize me for harassing another user.

So why wouldn't you hold the federal government, in its regulation of legal relationships in which there is great power disparity, to the same standards as you would hold this website in its regulation of common courtesy between strangers of equal power?

2. Gender-confusion advocates play fast and loose with terms that refer to both sex and gender, such as "woman", and try to conflate or to distinguish between sex and gender interchangeably, as suits their need. But woman refers to an individuals sex, and to the extent it is a gender, it is where gender overlaps in meaning with sex.

LOL @ saying that the other side is using semantics dishonestly while characterizing them as "gender-confusion advocates."

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

So it's a normative problem to you. It would seem to be a normative problem for everyone: but one on the basis of courtesy and refraining from harassment (in this case within the confines of a legal relationship with some power disparity).

But here's the thing that I would like to pose to you: I don't believe you're a woman. I truly do not, based on your opinions and on the demographic cross section of MMA fans and internet forum users generally. Yet, I don't constantly call you a man or quote your posts and irrelevantly question your claim to be a woman. I don't refer to you as "he" or bring up what I believe to be your gender or sex. I don't do that because that would serve no purpose other than to harass you. And you would, perhaps rightfully, report my posts and bring it to the attention of the forum moderators. And, if you asked me to stop and I kept on doing it, they would penalize me for harassing another user.

So why wouldn't you hold the federal government, in its regulation of legal relationships in which there is great power disparity, to the same standards as you would hold this website in its regulation of common courtesy between strangers of equal power?





LOL @ saying that the other side is using semantics dishonestly while characterizing them as "gender-confusion advocates."

1. It's not normative on the basis of courtesy if it is required by law.

2. I think you are wrong that mods would intervene if you were to constantly refer to me as male. Several posters do. Nor can I imagine ever complaining about that.

3. Your analysis of my sex is admittedly based on stereotyping and is a guess. The interaction we are speaking of itt is not based on a guess but on fact. How to refer to a transgendered person involves questions of courtesy, but also biology and religion, perhaps politics. In my opinion, to refer to a man wearing make up and a dress as a woman may be polite, but it is untrue, whether or not he has had his penis removed.

It is not an interaction that needs or should get federal regulation. I also think there are obvious First Amendment issues here, because requiring people to refer to you in a way they obviously see as false can be harassment both ways.

 

[Headkicktoleg]

I have already decided to construct all my sentences such that I only use the names of people in cases like this. Problem solved.

What if they decided to use a different name that day?

 

[Headkicktoleg]

The easiest solution is to just not hire trans-people then you don't have to worry about any of this shit.