US Bishops Call Healthcare a “Fundamental Right”

[palerider500]

I don't think many people want that, but I do recall someone on this very board arguing in favor of socialized food for developed Western nations. I was amused.

Very rarely do you ever see people, even if they are socialist in mind, wanting that though.

The abolishion of private property you will find more since that is a communist thing, but still full on communists aren't that common.

But that is the entire point. If we are to socialize healthcare, why not food?, and a job?, oh and a car?

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

I don't disagree but I'm not sure why a person born with wealth should have a higher priority than a person who busts their ass every day but works a job making 40K a year because they do what they love to do (teacher). The system should work for both people.

they dont have a higher priority -- just the means to buy better coverage. In a UHC system they will just pay exponentially more for services everyone gets equally.

Dont teachers get health coverage via the state?

 

[Rod1]

Exactly, but this must be what all liberals want. After all, what right could be more fundamental and important than FOOD?

There are food stamps and farm subsidies.

 

[zebby23]

But that is the entire point. If we are to socialize healthcare, why not food?, and a job?, oh and a car?

Why does it have to be all or nothing. Why can't we JUST talk about healthcare?

 

[zebby23]

they dont have a higher priority -- just the means to buy better coverage. In a UHC system they will just pay exponentially more for services everyone gets equally.

Dont teachers get health coverage via the state?

It's possible they do but probably not private school teachers.

Right so why should a person born into wealth get to have better health insurance than someone who doesn't have the means? How about a person who is disabled through no fault of their own? I agree that a person with more means should get the better service in just about every other circumstance. There is just something with healthcare that doesn't sit well with me when in the richest nation in the history of the world we can't provide proper health care for its people.

 

[ultramanhyata]

and its not proporganda:

the typical Canadian family spends 11-13k on healthcare via taxation transfers

http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/true-c...erage-family-is-11k-per-year-report-1.2525114

"According to a new report by the right-leaning Fraser Institute..." lol

It would, however, be interesting to see an objective study conducted on the question. A meta-analysis would be ideal in terms of being genuinely informative.

But the elephant in the room is still the US with higher per capita and higher percentage of GDP costs for a healthcare system with more limited access and poorer outcomes than Canada.

 

[hillelslovak87]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch-hunt#Early_Modern_Europe

Yes, they have a large litany of crimes, and yet they still did not reach the Catholic Church's scale in terms of bodycount or time. The Spanish, for example, took holy sadism to never before seen heights with their penchant for torture.

 

[hillelslovak87]

Why'd you assume the people saying this were? or were you off topic as usual?

You are making a presumption based upon something I did not say. I dont know what to tell you.

 

[Rod1]

Yes, they have a large litany of crimes, and yet they still did not reach the Catholic Church's scale in terms of bodycount or time. The Spanish, for example, took holy sadism to never before seen heights with their penchant for torture.

Nope.

Although records are incomplete, about 150,000 persons were charged with crimes by the Inquisition and it is believed 3,000–5,000 people were executed.

Against 40,000-60,000.

Also take into account that the Spanish inquisition was actually following real crimes, last time i checked witches dont exist.

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Obamacare is not universal health care. We would all pay LESS for UHC.

Then who is paying for it?

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

You are making a presumption based upon something I did not say. I dont know what to tell you.

Why'd you bring up the pedo thing in this thread? What was the relevance?

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

The government's job is what the citizens say it is. If we say we want to pool our money to reduce our average Healthcare costs and cut out middleman profits, we dictate to the representative state as the intermediary.

But you want it to be federal I thought?

 

[oleDirtyBast4rd]

Ya, I think I just disagree about the whole advanced medical techniques part. If my child was dying and I'm poor I don't see why someone who has means (maybe not on their own merit) should get better treatment. I still believe we are all born equal and just because a baby has rich parents he/she should not receive better treatment. I feel like we could all work collectively to get so much profit out of healthcare/medicine and bring the costs down for everyone.

Why not take the medicine out of it and go full socialist? I want a boat damnit

 

[zebby23]

Why not take the medicine out of it and go full socialist? I want a boat damnit

Tough to have an intelligent debate with people who are intellectually dishonest because at any point in the conversation if you get uncomfortable or you realize you are losing the debate you will do something like this. Pointless really

 

[hillelslovak87]

Nope.

Although records are incomplete, about 150,000 persons were charged with crimes by the Inquisition and it is believed 3,000–5,000 people were executed.

Against 40,000-60,000.

Also take into account that the Spanish inquisition was actually following real crimes, last time i checked witches dont exist.

There were many, many inquisitions that kept entire societies under siege, for hundreds of years. Then you have the Catholic Church's anti semitism, and couple that with the Crusades (Not all were offensive, obviously), and you have the greatest litany of crime from christendom.

 

[hillelslovak87]

Why'd you bring up the pedo thing in this thread? What was the relevance?

Because I dont think it's right that a group who has systematically covered up the most heinous sexual crimes against children by it's members should be listened to on any moral matters, especially health. That's why.

 

[Rod1]

There were many, many inquisitions that kept entire societies under siege, for hundreds of years. Then you have the Catholic Church's anti semitism, and couple that with the Crusades (Not all were offensive, obviously), and you have the greatest litany of crime from christendom.

But protestantism didnt existed back then, so its unfair to say that under protestantism those aggressions and crimes would not had happened.

 

[ripskater]

There are also hybrid systems where there is a universal health care coverage, but also private clinics. So for people that have enough money they can still have the option to pay out of pocket in order to get services without waiting in what can be long line ups through the universal queue.

Paying extra to get your health back right away (say you need a non emergency surgery like knee surgery or something) often times is worth the cost, as compared to waiting around injured for months on end.

So it wouldn't be jumping the queue. It would be avoiding it altogether.

This is why I don't want sociaized medicine. I don't want to wait.

I have to work to provide for my family. So I don't want govt deciding when and what I have to do.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

"According to a new report by the right-leaning Fraser Institute..." lol

It would, however, be interesting to see an objective study conducted on the question. A meta-analysis would be ideal in terms of being genuinely informative.

But the elephant in the room is still the US with higher per capita and higher percentage of GDP costs for a healthcare system with more limited access and poorer outcomes than Canada.

right leaning in Canada is not equivalent to right leaning in in the US -- so, your cute "lol's" probably dont apply here. That study pulls from national published data was published in academic soruces (university of Toronto) and left leaning publications such as HuffPo

You guys pay much more for specialists, more for drugs and lead the world in development and usage of medical technology that far exceeds other countries. You actually use your MRI, CT machines and your wait times for procedures are much less. You also blow away every other nation in published medial research.

 

[sickc0d3r]

Good article but again the underlying theme was convincnicing state tax payers to pay for their own state healthcare -- seems like the prevailing theme is that people do want healthcare but they want someone else to pay for it.

Just out of curiosity -- what's the average cost for a family of 4 to get health coverage in the US? In Canada if you factor in taxation the cost is almost roughly 13k.

Actually, what I gather is that politicians suck at writing health care bills. I haven't seen any legislation that even comes close to accurately summarizing the actual costs to Joe Taxpayer in order for anyone to compare it to their current expenses. Like I said, it is just as bad at the federal level when trying to compose a palatable, completely market driven solution, so it's not like this is a phenomenon of a single payer plan.

My employer pays about 15k a year for my insurance, and I pay about 5k, with a 6k deductible. I'm positive my employer would love to be relieved of the burden, maybe it would trickle down, eh?