Update: "Teachers' Spring Continues" - Add AZ to the List with NC to Follow?

[PainIsLIfe]

Yes I think that goes without saying. Teacher salaries, at least in CT, are only paid 9 months out of the year. They have the option of collecting a check year round, but it's a reduced rate compared to if they only collected during the school year.

I think his point is that you need to add another 25% to their salary to get a true picture of what they're making. ie if most people only work 9 month of the year, you're only taking home 75% of what you would have made.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Our Federal government has run a deficit for a long time but somehow both Republican and Democrats have managed to vote for raises for themselves.

It would be more appropriate to compare the salary's to others in WV with similar education levels.

If the govt thinks the strike was illegal, fire them all and sort it out in court. Seems to me the teachers banded together, rolled the dice, fought the government and won. Very American story if you ask me.

- Both parties suck so give all state employees a raise? Interesting take.

- According to Indeed.com average salary of an RN in West Virginia is $56.7k - adjusted for a 9 month schedule equals $42.5k

- I said more power to them, but when my state teachers went on "strike" in early 80s we never missed a day of school and the teachers still won their "strike". I also notice that the teachers won because the state is cutting funding to medical for the poor. So much for the idea that money just grows on trees.

 

[phipps66]

I think his point is that you need to add another 25% to their salary to get a true picture of what they're making. ie if most people only work 9 month of the year, you're only taking home 75% of what you would have made.

I know exactly what his point was. He was intending to demean teachers and imply they don't deserve comparable salaries to police and firemen. And the point he was making couldn't be further from the truth. The actuality is that you can't add 25% and say that's some equivalent to what a full year salary. At the beginning of the school year, a teacher has the option to collect a full (calendar) year salary, or select a full (school) year salary. The full (calendar) year salary option is a series of lower payments, but goes throughout the summer. The (school) year option is larger payments, Sept. through June. This means a full (calendar) year salary is actually the same exact amount as the (school) year salary. So to arbitrarily add 25% to their salary for some sort of "effective full year salary" or "true picture" is actually the very opposite of the how the system actually works.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

2.1% out of how many thousands/millions of teachers? It's gotta be barely a drop in the bucket.

Standardized tests are fucking hilariously bad and stupid imo.

I'd say standardized test have a place, but they aren't the be all, end all of what students learn.

 

[JohnnySagebrush]

-

- According to Indeed.com average salary of an RN in West Virginia is $56.7k - adjusted for a 9 month schedule equals $42.5k
.

Most nurses work 3 days a week, with no need to “prep” or take work home with them. They work less days per year than a teacher is contracted for. In fact, nurses that work 12 hour shifts end up working 36-hour weeks, but are full-time with all the benefits that entails.

I say that not to diminish their difficult job, but to show that it is silly to try and use “amount worked” as justification for low teacher salaries.

 

[phipps66]

According to Indeed.com average salary of an RN in West Virginia is $56.7k - adjusted for a 9 month schedule equals $42.5k

Forget about the 9 month schedule. It's not relevant to the discussion. If teachers worked over the summer, their salaries would be (as they should be) even higher.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Most nurses work 3 days a week, with no need to “prep” or take work home with them. They work less days per year than a teacher is contracted for. In fact, nurses that work 12 hour shifts end up working 36-hour weeks, but are full-time with all the benefits that entails.

I say that not to diminish their difficult job, but to show that it is silly to try and use “amount worked” as justification for low teacher salaries.

I work 12 hr shifts myself - that equates to 2100 hrs/yr. btw- those nurse work 36hrs 1 week and 48 another.

We've already established that teachers work in the range of 1600-1700hrs per year so it's very much a good comparison.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Forget about the 9 month schedule. It's not relevant to the discussion. If teachers worked over the summer, their salaries would be (as they should be) even higher.

Nearly everyone that works full time works 2000 or more hrs per year.

So what do you think a teacher should be paid considering the economic situation of the state and avg pay of the populous of the state they live in?

 

[phipps66]

Nearly everyone that works full time works 2000 or more hrs per year.

So what do you think a teacher should be paid considering the economic situation of the state and avg pay of the populous of the state they live in?

They should be paid for the time they work. Which they are. Same as I am paid for the hours I put in and hours you put in. Their salary is their salary. I explained it in my other post. The economics of the state and the populous are of no matter. And I'm glad you brought it up. Since my Wife has a Master's, she should get a fat raise and be paid on par with those in the state who have the same level of education. Maybe only like $25 or 30k per year more. So yes I guess avg. pay of the populous sounds good to me.

 

[JohnnySagebrush]

I work 12 hr shifts myself - that equates to 2100 hrs/yr. btw- those nurse work 36hrs 1 week and 48 another.

We've already established that teachers work in the range of 1600-1700hrs per year so it's very much a good comparison.

I don’t know any nurses that work 36 and then 48. I’m not saying it doesn’t exist in some systems, but the healthcare agencies I’ve worked with have all been 36 hours a week; 3-12 hour shifts with full benefits.

That’s 1872 hours a year. If you are trying to break down teacher salary to the hour, it should be clear nurses are making more.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

They should be paid for the time they work. Which they are. Same as I am paid for the hours I put in and hours you put in. Their salary is their salary. I explained it in my other post. The economics of the state and the populous are of no matter. And I'm glad you brought it up. Since my Wife has a Master's, she should get a fat raise and be paid on par with those in the state who have the same level of education. Maybe only like $25 or 30k per year more. So yes I guess avg. pay of the populous sounds good to me.

I didn't say that they should be paid what the avg person makes - It's a poor state with a lot of fiscal issues; 18% of the state lives in poverty; they just cut funding for the medical care for the poor to pay for this raise.


I'm just pointing out that in WV they already make more than the avg family income - ie the people paying their salary.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

I don’t know any nurses that work 36 and then 48. I’m not saying it doesn’t exist in some systems, but the healthcare agencies I’ve worked with have all been 36 hours a week; 3-12 hour shifts with full benefits.

That’s 1872 hours a year. If you are trying to break down teacher salary to the hour, it should be clear nurses are making more.

So who works the 7th day? If everyone is working 36 hrs a week then no one is working Sunday.

 

[phipps66]

I didn't say that they should be paid what the avg person makes - It's a poor state with a lot of fiscal issues; 18% of the state lives in poverty; they just cut funding for the medical care for the poor to pay for this raise.


I'm just pointing out that in WV they already make more than the avg family income - ie the people paying their salary.

Ohh ok I'm picking up what you're putting down. I don't see a question to answer but I will say that the forces of the market economy are on full show in WV. And if politicians want to cut funding to poor people to pay for working people, that's on them. If they didn't make it (somewhat) more attractive to teach in WV, the education system would further erode, and the drain would be circled even quicker. We're getting deeper into economic/class issue and away from the main topic, but I do appreciate debating with some candor and decorum.

EDIT: At some point teachers need to cease being the scapegoat for any and every fiscal or societal issue.

 

[JohnnySagebrush]

So who works the 7th day? If everyone is working 36 hrs a week then no one is working Sunday.

A day is broken into 12-hour shifts, 2 per day, 14 per pay period. You work 6 shifts a pay period, aka 3 shifts a week, with most places imposing a limit on consecutive shifts. There needs to be enough staffing to cover every shift. Hospital staffing isn’t like a warehouse that is only staffed 8-12 hours.

 

[JohnnySagebrush]

A relevant thought when comparing teacher salary in WV to the State’s average income:

15% of West Virginia adults age 24-64 are on disability. 15 freaking percent. Disability fraud is a rite of passage in WV. You have 15 percent of a working-age population NOT working, then try to justify teacher salaries using a metric that is figured where you have 15% of that group having no working income. It skews the “average” dramatically.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

A day is broken into 12-hour shifts, 2 per day, 14 per pay period. You work 6 shifts a pay period, aka 3 shifts a week, with most places imposing a limit on consecutive shifts. There needs to be enough staffing to cover every shift. Hospital staffing isn’t like a warehouse that is only staffed 8-12 hours.

I get that, we run 24/7 and have 4 rotations (a,b,c,d) so when a and b work, c and d are off and vice versa.

our sched goes like this:
Mon, Tue, Sat, Sun - 48
Mon, Fri, Sat, Sun - 48
Wed, Thurs, Fri - 36
Tue, Wed, Thurs - 36

 

[woodguyatl]

- Both parties suck so give all state employees a raise? Interesting take.

- According to Indeed.com average salary of an RN in West Virginia is $56.7k - adjusted for a 9 month schedule equals $42.5k

- I said more power to them, but when my state teachers went on "strike" in early 80s we never missed a day of school and the teachers still won their "strike". I also notice that the teachers won because the state is cutting funding to medical for the poor. So much for the idea that money just grows on trees.

I typed this when standing in long line at bank. It's train of thought. Take it for what it is worth- which likely isn't much.

It's all moot anyways. Trump is MAGA and the coal industry will roaring back and filling the State coffers shortly.

My point was that asking the govt for a raise when it is in the red is common practice and actively supported by both parties. My family did raise wages for about 100 employees when were losing money in 09-11 because they were experienced and skilled and losing them would have effectively shut us down. Being fully staffed and ready to go let us succeed because were able to take on the work just when the economy turned and didn't need to staff up.

WV needs to come to terms with its budget situation. Either they need to cut spending or raise taxes. You can't fault the teachers for not wanting to be the 47th worse paid teachers in the country.

I don't support taking money from Medicaid, but if the State as a whole has a problem with its budget, there are a number of solutions including cutting elsewhere or raising tax revenue by attracting more businesses or raising tax rates. They also could have let the teachers stay on strike.

I thought most RN's had a 4-year degree. I can't speak for WV, but I just texted my SIL who teaches middle school in MD and she said that over 80% of the teachers in her school have Masters Degrees or are working on them.

 

[JohnnySagebrush]

I get that, we run 24/7 and have 4 rotations (a,b,c,d) so when a and b work, c and d are off and vice versa.

our sched goes like this:
Mon, Tue, Sat, Sun - 48
Mon, Fri, Sat, Sun - 48
Wed, Thurs, Fri - 36
Tue, Wed, Thurs - 36

There isn’t a “set” rotation, like with my job (where there are 3-48 hour shifts, your schedule never changing), or like yours. There are 28 available 12 hour independent shifts, you either sign up or are assigned any 6 of them. Hospitals have set minimum staffing for each shift. There aren’t any “off” days, the system is built on having enough individuals to maintain at least minimum staffing for all shifts. I’m not sure if I am doing a good job explaining it. It seems like you are thinking of shift work where there are set crews, hospitals are more a free for all.

 

[woodguyatl]

I work 12 hr shifts myself - that equates to 2100 hrs/yr. btw- those nurse work 36hrs 1 week and 48 another.

We've already established that teachers work in the range of 1600-1700hrs per year so it's very much a good comparison.

Do nurses do a lot of work at home? All teachers that I know do a few hours each night. Would you be cool with teachers only working a straight 40 even if that had negative consequences for the education system such as inability to spend one-on-one time with students because that time must be spent grading papers and completing necessary paperwork?

 

[JonesBones]

"When schoolchildren start paying union dues, that's when I'll start representing the interests of school children."

-Albert Shanker head of teacher's federation for 30 years.