Update: "Teachers' Spring Continues" - Add AZ to the List with NC to Follow?

[phipps66]

hi there PainIsLife,

but that's not quite right. the cuts will be in Medicaid - which hits low income people right into the nuts. those low income folks probably have paid a minimum in taxes (both state and federal) their entire lives.

some of the elderly have been poor all their lives too, you know? they're not the ones supporting the system - the system was built to help people like them.

in either case, my point was that this is a result that should make fiscal conservatives happy. no taxes were raised, and the "takers" got their hands slapped away.

- IGIT

Noo fiscal conservatives must very torn on this. On one hand it has siphoned funding away from the poor, but on the other hand a public union had a positive outcome.

 

[IGIT]

I see what you're saying. The onus of where to redirect from is on the legislators. It's not the fault of the teachers that's where the money came from. I know if I was a teacher in WV I would feel zero guilt over those decisions. Things of that nature happen all the time. I can point to one recent time my taxes were raised and rich folks and corporations reaped the benefits. I doubt they feel guilty or in any responsible.

hi phipps66,

its a tough situation.

teachers in West Virginia are so grossly underpaid, that they'll be the ones needing the very Medicaid that's been cut when they retire.

i don't know the answer. its a Southern red state. i figure the Federal Government will have to just siphon off more money from California and New Jersey to fund these kinds of backward places.

- IGIT

 

[cooks1]

The moment it becomes legal for armed personnel to carry in schools in my state, I'm going to donate the funds necessary for any willing faculty member to purchase a firearm, CCW training, holsters, and even ammunition.

The private sector is more than willing to help in the effort to secure our schools.

I hope I am wrong, but I fear this is going to end up being one of the great all time backfires in history.

I bet within a year one of these 'deputized teachers' merks a kid or kids in school.

 

[IGIT]

Noo fiscal conservatives must very torn on this. On one hand it has siphoned funding away from the poor, but on the other hand a public union had a positive outcome.

hio phipps66,

i doubt that. at least, i doubt that's the case in West Virginia. public support for the teachers was pretty widespread.

- IGIT

 

[phipps66]

hi phipps66,

its a tough situation.

teachers in West Virginia are so grossly underpaid, that they'll be the ones needing the very Medicaid that's been cut when they retire.

i don't know the answer. its a Southern red state. i figure the Federal Government will have to just siphon off more money from California and New Jersey to fund these kinds of backward places.

- IGIT

I think you and I could find a lot of common ground. It is a super hard situation. I also don't know the answer. But since I live in CT, I imagine the feds will find a way to make me pay for it. Same as folks in NJ and CA.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

in either case, my point was that this is a result that should make fiscal conservatives happy. no taxes were raised, and the "takers" got their hands slapped away.

- IGIT

I see (I think) that we have the same reservations about the cuts.

FTR- as a true "fiscal conservative" I'm not against raising taxes. I'm against carrying perpetual debt that gets passed on to our kids and grand kids.

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

I hope I am wrong, but I fear this is going to end up being one of the great all time backfires in history.

I bet within a year one of these 'deputized teachers' merks a kid or kids in school.

These same sorts of blood-in-the-streets scenarios were also claimed by the over-anxious when concealed carry first became common in the United States. It never happened.

Also, keep in mind that you guaranteed that Donald Trump would drop out of the primary election before the Iowa caucus, and we're currently 15 months into his reign as President. Perhaps you would be willing to concede that people don't have the ability to actually predict the future.

 

[spamking]

Are they going to pay for their training to carry a concealed weapon to?

Or does that come out of their checks..?

I'll pay for my wife's . . . it'll help her manage all of those rowdy 3rd graders.

 

[spamking]

2- Teachers don't work under shitty conditions, unless you count dealing with unruly teens - again part of the job they signed up for.

Seriously? Many teachers are seen as glorified baby-sitters who deal with problem kids who disrupt a classroom and don't get any support from parents. Most have had their ability to properly discipline kids removed by said parents.

You should tell this to some teachers in larger inner-city schools . . . I'm sure they'd just suck it up and move on.

3-Break teacher pay down by days worked and you'll find that teachers are more than well compensated - again in a field they signed up for.

Interesting comparison based on days worked . . .

 

[irish_thug]

Yes I think that goes without saying. Teacher salaries, at least in CT, are only paid 9 months out of the year. They have the option of collecting a check year round, but it's a reduced rate compared to if they only collected during the school year.

No. They only deserve respect 9 months out of the year.

 

[cooks1]

These same sorts of blood-in-the-streets scenarios were also claimed by the over-anxious when concealed carry first became common in the United States. It never happened.

Also, keep in mind that you guaranteed that Donald Trump would drop out of the primary election before the Iowa caucus, and we're currently 15 months into his reign as President. Perhaps you would be willing to concede that people don't have the ability to actually predict the future.

It was a while ago I admit, but if I am not mistaken, a lot of the CC laws changed in the mid-late 1980's. And in the following 5-7 years the annual deaths by handgun went up north of 70%. I would not call that insignificant.

As far as my Trump prognostications, I admit I was wrong, and I have a sig bet that I am paying off for 4 years as a result. And I will admit when I am wrong in the future.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Seriously? Many teachers are seen as glorified baby-sitters who deal with problem kids who disrupt a classroom and don't get any support from parents. Most have had their ability to properly discipline kids removed by said parents.

You should tell this to some teachers in larger inner-city schools . . . I'm sure they'd just suck it up and move on.

Oh, so they don't arrest criminals on a daily bases; Climb exposed scaffolding in the elements; Work in dirty dusty conditions; Crawl in a hole to dig coal - this is WV; face threat of termination by their employer, face the prospect of being laid off, etc...

Yes, they deal with unruly kids and some unsupportive parents; that's not exactly considered horrible working conditions to the rest of us.

I'm all for beating the little shits when they get out of line and offered my oldest sons teacher permission any time she wanted. She said they couldn't do that, so I asked if I could take him home (I lived 2 mins from the school) to whip him and bring him back and you'd have thought I had shot the president by the look on her face.

Interesting comparison based on days worked . . .

I know everything the guy is saying, but what I'm really getting is 'my wife knew she was going to be underpaid in this profession and went into it regardless so now we expect you to pay more taxes so that she can make more money'.

 

[IGIT]

I see (I think) that we have the same reservations about the cuts.

FTR- as a true "fiscal conservative" I'm not against raising taxes. I'm against carrying perpetual debt that gets passed on to our kids and grand kids.

hi there PainIsLife,

i think their solution - cutting Medicaid - is going to be a problem, and i think folks are burying the lead.

this is a poor state, with a low population.

its taxes aren't really all that low, but they are not high enough to sustain the wishes of its state residents. i'm not sure what is to be done.

- IGIT

 

[spamking]

Oh, so they don't arrest criminals on a daily bases; Climb exposed scaffolding in the elements; Work in dirty dusty conditions; Crawl in a hole to dig coal - this is WV; face threat of termination by their employer, face the prospect of being laid off, etc...

I'm not sure what this has to do with my reply . . . I never said other folks didn't work in horrible conditions. I was simply pointing out that many teachers do in fact work in some horrible settings.

Yes, they deal with unruly kids and some unsupportive parents; that's not exactly considered horrible working conditions to the rest of us.

That's only part of their problem . . . but I believe you know that.

I'm all for beating the little shits when they get out of line and offered my oldest sons teacher permission any time she wanted. She said they couldn't do that, so I asked if I could take him home (I lived 2 mins from the school) to whip him and bring him back and you'd have thought I had shot the president by the look on her face.

And her reaction is part of the problem . . . I remember having problem kids back when I was in school, but they often got their butt whipped by the principal and that straightened them out for quite a while.

I know everything the guy is saying, but what I'm really getting is 'my wife knew she was going to be underpaid in this profession and went into it regardless so now we expect you to pay more taxes so that she can make more money'.

Why see it like that instead of seeing it as raising her pay to be comparable to the surrounding states?

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

So the tax payers of the state are the "evil owners of the means of production" in these cases?

 

[PainIsLIfe]

I'm not sure what this has to do with my reply . . . I never said other folks didn't work in horrible conditions. I was simply pointing out that many teachers do in fact work in some horrible settings.


Why see it like that instead of seeing it as raising her pay to be comparable to the surrounding states?

Just keeping things in perspective when you tell that state that you work in horrible conditions.


It's the same reason I rag on people that go to college and major in theater or horticulture - And the surrounding states have nothing to do with your states financial situation.

 

[lifelessheap]

A bunch of teachers in my high school had summer jobs. There is just so much time off for a teacher. All the time off is a major factor for many teachers. My cousin is a 5th grade teacher in Los Angeles. He played the game right and got all the degrees and certifications to maximize his pay. He makes over 100k and gets to travel and vacation CONSTANTLY because all the time off. Furthermore, his job is a fucking cake walk. He chills with kids and teaches them the same shit every year.

Is he a hero? lol.

 

[Gutter Chris]

I hope I am wrong, but I fear this is going to end up being one of the great all time backfires in history.

I bet within a year one of these 'deputized teachers' merks a kid or kids in school.

Is there a history of teachers murdering students with guns now right this second ?

 

[lifelessheap]

I can: Our outrageous amount of wealth.

This goes hand-in-hand with income inequality, of course, but given the vast amount of capital in the country, we should be way higher. Ok, Singapore, Finland, Taiwan, etc., maybe unreachable because of the huge difference in geography and culture, but we should AT LEAST be up there with Germany and Britain- two other large, Western countries.

I don't buy the "ethnic diversity" angle, either. Canada is about 22% nonwhite to 30% for the US and they're not just ahead of us, they're ahead of most of Europe as well.

Canada's minorities are high achieving immigrants for the most part. The US has a massive population of minorities that grow up in broken families and ghettos, or there are the illegal aliens and their children. Basically our blacks and Mexicans drag down scores for the whole country because of their circumstances. My sister lives in Central Valley town in NorCal and the high school over half illegal aliens kids or anchor babies. It screws the whole school up. So many kids are ESL, and immigrant families don't place as much importance on scholastic achievement as natives. I do give credit to Mexican immigrants for placing a high value on family and hard work though.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

Canada's minorities are high achieving immigrants for the most part. The US has a massive population of minorities that grow up in broken families and ghettos, or there are the illegal aliens and their children. Basically our blacks and Mexicans drag down scores for the whole country because of their circumstances. My sister lives in Central Valley town in NorCal and the high school over half illegal aliens kids or anchor babies. It screws the whole school up. So many kids are ESL, and immigrant families don't place as much importance on scholastic achievement as natives. I do give credit to Mexican immigrants for placing a high value on family and hard work though.

My future daughter-in-law taught ESL in Phoenix for a few years - there's a lot of truth to this, but I wonder with the mass influx of 3rd world refugees to Europe why aren't we seeing drops in their scores?