Update: Reem gassing-out debate

Roger FedorAIR said:
As far as I'm concerned, there is no debate.

If you couldn't see that Reem was significantly slowed down by the 3rd round, then you are blind.

If you want to debate about what are the varying levels of being tired, and at what point does that qualify to use the term "gassed" then have at it. But Reem was considerably slower in the 3rd round than he was in the 1st, and the guy has some serious cardio issues to address (that I don't think he ever will).
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Alot of people must not have noticed that Overeem with his hands down was easily avoiding everything Bigfoot through in the first but after the stand up at the end of the second Bigfoot had magically become the much faster man with Overeem looking to be stuck in molasses. Perhaps stand ups just give Bigfoot plus 10 speed.

Bigfoot noted at the post fight press conference how heavy Overeem's breathing was on top and kept whispering for him to attack so he would continue to drain himself, probably the main reason Bigfoot jumped him once they got stood up since he knew Overeem was fading and his plan was a success.
 
bigconan said:
Heres the thing i am having a hard time dealing with. I watched everyone of Reem's K1 fights. The year he won it, he had a rather tough battle with Tyrone Spong, who is wayyyyyyyyy better than silva in the standup. Spong is a world class striker. yet over reem, though it was a fairly tough fight, reem won it convincingly. Then he fought 2 other times that same night, without showing any signs of fatique. Yes, the rounds are only 2 or 3 minutes long(I forget) there is no grappling allowed, so maybe that all has to do with it.

Here is the problem as I see it. Reem weighed in at 264lbs. Same weight as before. But he wasn't nearly as lean. For him to be as lean as last time, when He fought Brock, he would have been around 240-245lbs. Thats telling me, he didn't train as hard for this fight.

The theory of him looking the way he did, cause he was off the juice, just doesn't make sense to me. I have known guys, that were juicers, and for whatever reason, they had to get off the juice for a year or longer. reem lost probably about 20lbs of muscle. If it was the juice, I think he would have lost alot more muscle than that.
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he went 3 rounds with Spong and then beat both Saki and Aerts in the 1st rounds.

and clinching/grappling is far more tiring than pure striking.
 
bigconan said:
Heres the thing i am having a hard time dealing with. I watched everyone of Reem's K1 fights. The year he won it, he had a rather tough battle with Tyrone Spong, who is wayyyyyyyyy better than silva in the standup. Spong is a world class striker. yet over reem, though it was a fairly tough fight, reem won it convincingly. Then he fought 2 other times that same night, without showing any signs of fatique. Yes, the rounds are only 2 or 3 minutes long(I forget) there is no grappling allowed, so maybe that all has to do with it.

Here is the problem as I see it. Reem weighed in at 264lbs. Same weight as before. But he wasn't nearly as lean. For him to be as lean as last time, when He fought Brock, he would have been around 240-245lbs. Thats telling me, he didn't train as hard for this fight.

The theory of him looking the way he did, cause he was off the juice, just doesn't make sense to me. I have known guys, that were juicers, and for whatever reason, they had to get off the juice for a year or longer. reem lost probably about 20lbs of muscle. If it was the juice, I think he would have lost alot more muscle than that.
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You could easily conclude that his physical appearance was due to him being off steroids. On steroids he was a super lean beast. This last fight he was a somewhat lean beast. Clearly his physique was below the standard he normally sets. What was the one major difference? No PEDs would be the obvious answer. Don't even try to say it was his lack of motivation to train. Overreem has fought much less dangerous guys than Big Foot and still showed up in beast mode.
 
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PUO3 said:
he looked a bit tired walking to his corner after the second, but he also took a big knee right then.

it really doesnt matter. alistair lost because of the absolutely stupid way he went about that fight. plain and simple.
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I'd have to agree with this. If I remembered right he came right out at the start of the third and got right in Bigfoot's face. I'd say the knee he took at the end of the 2nd is what changed him.

That said, he lost because he didn't give Bigfoot any respect. He went about that fight in an idiotic way and gave it to him.
 
WOAH guys look at 8:10

Thats amazing how much Cain/Bigfoot respect each other....so different than Bigfoot vs Overeem.
 
He is so muscly. He should have wrestled down the bigfoot and sit on his face.
 
Andre Xiong said:
It looked like Reem went in with a plan to pace himself indeed. Bigfoot was just holding on to dear life in round 1 and willing to go down for a TKO loss if Reem had pushed the attack.
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I don't recall Bigfoot ever holding on to his dear life, at all. The first two rounds, while very one-sided, were more on the uneventful side.
 
He had his hands down the entire fight and finally got caught. I'm no Overeem fan, but he'd win that matchup 4 out of 5 (more) if he came in fighting smart and respecting the very real danger that Big Foot presents with his bowling ball sized fists.
 
It was obvious Overeem was gassed. Go watch the fight again and when they both stand up for the 3rd round the camera pans to Overeem showing him gasping for air. And for what little he actually did in rounds 1 and 2 along with him being the pace setter that's terrible.

If he fought Cain he would be gassed within the first round. Where he wouldn't be able to dictate the pace.
 
The fact is Overeem gave it his all and lost. The dude has gone into EVERY fight with the same smug look on his face and lack of respect for his opponents. It's part of his gameplan to instill fear into who he's up against and until now he's been successful. He needed to defend against takedowns so keeping his hands a bit lower than usual was necessary. Bigfoot was the first fighter to weather the early storm and capitalize on Overeem's lack of cardio while at the same time not be fazed by Overeem's mind games. That's all.
 
BF wasnt tired at all thats the main thing imo. He said he would chill in the first round and wait for Overeem to gas out. I thought it was a dumb plan but it worked.
 
Gassing wasn't the issue. You can be gassed to fuck and still go out and fight defensively to take it to a decision.

Reem stormed out when he should've been cautious, wasn't taking Bigfoot seriously and got popped for it. End of story.
 
Cardio has always been Overeem's achilles heel. He had terrible cardio at LHW. It's only logical that adding 40 pounds of muscle would exacerbate this weakness. He set a snail's pace for the first two round, but was still gassed by the third. This will always be his downfall against high level fighters. Luckily for him there aren't very many high level fighters at HW, so he'll likely always have a place in the top 10.
 
Andre Xiong said:
Chuck is rumored to be one of the first mma fighters to display the affects of one too many 5oz punches.

On a serious note, just because Chuck referred to it as "gassing" out doesn't mean it is true. Since 2003, Reem has been known to not take punches very well, whether it's in round 1 or round 3. Bigfoot was losing and his corner did a great job of telling him to go balls out and throw followup punches rather than single punches.
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Him and Gary Goodridge.

Ron
 
Andre Xiong said:
No, Reem was not going all out. He was playing pitter patter and toying with BigFoot and looked supreme doing so until the flurry and moneyshot on the chin.
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That's exactly what happened, resumed in one sentence. Well done!
 
Hopefully Overeem never underestimates an opponent again. I think he's going to come back stronger and eventually fight for the title.
 
Bigfoot said he could tell Overeem was gassing when they were on the ground in round 2.
 
Cyantist said:
Gassing wasn't the issue. You can be gassed to fuck and still go out and fight defensively to take it to a decision.

Reem stormed out when he should've been cautious, wasn't taking Bigfoot seriously and got popped for it. End of story.
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I believe you are correct. Overeem has been tired plenty of times and still defended himself well.
 
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