Update: "Teachers' Spring Continues" - Add AZ to the List with NC to Follow?

I know a 3rd grade teacher personally. According to her, she puts in a 6 1/2 hour, on site school day and then, at most, 1 hour of after school work. Roughly 180 days a year. Do the math.

(I'm sure middle and high school teachers put in additional prep and grading hours per day.)
I could cut my work outside of class down if I just got home and churned it out, but yeah 1-2 hours extra after work isn't terribly uncommon for me; it occasionally takes as much as 4. I usually do it while something is playing in the background though. I'm currently preparing some of my lectures for tomorrow.
 
anybody can teach. anyone. so they need to make a decent living but not much more than the equivalent of 40k here. there is a map of how much a dollar is worth across the country, adjust it to that. you want more than that work 12 months out of the year and actually compete with other countries, if not i could hire any idiot that can read to fill in for just about any teacher up to high school. after that you have to be able to read and repeat what you're told. outside of the sht they have to put up with it's a cake job. can you perhaps point to a person now who couldn't do pe, study hall, home econ, etc... all the way up to graduation

Boy, if that doesn't sum up the phrase "race to the bottom"...
 
Boy, if that doesn't sum up the phrase "race to the bottom"...
As opposed to now where we have the best education system. If only we paid these same people even more.
 
As opposed to now where we have the best education system. If only we paid these same people even more.

The average teacher lasts less than five years before leaving the profession, dude. It's a revolving door of burnt out people in their primes (25-35 years old), not some entrenched group of middle aged dead weight slackers.
 
The average teacher lasts less than five years before leaving the profession, dude. It's a revolving door of burnt out people in their primes (25-35 years old), not some entrenched group of middle aged dead weight slackers.
Well, if a ton of them end up in inner city schools it's no small wonder.
 
The average teacher lasts less than five years before leaving the profession, dude. It's a revolving door of burnt out people in their primes (25-35 years old), not some entrenched group of middle aged dead weight slackers.
Every single person I went to school with who went into teaching was not the cream of the crop. They went into teaching because it’s easy. Dealing with families sucks. And it looks like your numbers are off, 17% leave in five
https://edsource.org/2015/half-of-n...sion-in-5-years-not-true-new-study-says/83054
 
Looks like public servants in these red states are sick and tired of being paid dirt because their states have been transformed by the GOP into nothing but corporate tax shelters.

About. F-ing. Time.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-oklahoma-teachers-20180306-story.html

Across Oklahoma, teachers, labor organizers, parents and school boards are taking steps to follow West Virginia in launching their first major strike since 1990 to demand higher pay from the state Legislature.

On Thursday, the Oklahoma Education Assn. teachers union plans to unveil a shutdown strategy and a proposed funding measure to pressure lawmakers to boost spending for education in the state. The union said 80% of more than 10,000 respondents to an online survey backed closing schools in support of a walkout.

Association President Alicia Priest said the union was "working toward" bringing all districts on board with a possible walkout, as in West Virginia, though she said "not everyone is on board yet, and that's OK."

"The goal is not a walkout," Priest said. "The goal is for us to have funding for public education to best meet the needs of our students."

Next week, teachers in Tulsa, one of the state's biggest school districts, plan to engage in a work-to-rule protest — a labor slowdown in which workers do only the minimum amount of work required. They have the backing of top administrators, who said they plan to support a teacher walkout and school shutdowns "should they become necessary."

"We have a really hard time holding on to our wonderful folks and recruiting others," said Deborah Gist, superintendent of Tulsa Public Schools, which has 3,000 educators and 40,000 students. "We lost 22% of our teachers last year, and over the last couple of years, more than 30% in total."

The public, including business leaders and parents, "knows what a huge problem we have here in our state and are ready to do something bout it," Gist said.

In the space of just a few days, 55,000 people have joined an Oklahoma teacher's private Facebook group titled "Oklahoma Teacher Walkout - The Time Is Now!" where educators have been discussing the basics of how a walkout would work. How would a walkout affect mandatory testing? Would teachers still get paid?

"If this does, in fact, happen [fingers-crossed emoji], I'd like to work on somehow getting food to kiddos who rely on school for their meals!!" one third-grade teacher wrote. "If any of you have any ideas, connections, etc... PM [private message] me!!"

Talk of a possible walkout had been brewing for months, even before the West Virginia strike, as lawmakers struggled to pass funding measures that might raise teacher pay.

The average salary of Oklahoma teachers in 2016 was $42,760, which falls several thousand dollars below the average salaries in neighboring states such as Texas ($51,890), Arkansas ($48,218) and Kansas ($47,755), according to the most recently available data from the National Education Assn. The highest-paid teachers in the NEA rankings are in New York, earning an average of $79,152. California teachers, at No. 2, earn an average of $77,179.

West Virginia Update:

Crowds cause capacity concerns at Capitol
Many teachers, service personnel and other citizens descended on the state Capitol to express their concerns about pay. The size and density of the crowds has prompted a "capacity concern from Capitol Police and the West Virginia Fire Marshal.

"No further visitors are being admitted at this time," the state Department of Military Affairs & Public Safety said. Capitol Police and organizers are working to "ensure manageable conditions this afternoon," the agency said.

West Virginia public school teachers are continuing their strike because the legislature didn't meet their demand for higher pay and better benefits over the weekend. About 20,000 teachers walked out February 22, keeping almost 277,000 students out of class.

West Virginia public school teachers earn an average salary of about $45,000, making them among the lowest paid educators in the United States. School service personnel are also walking out. The pay raise must be passed as a law, since West Virginia is not a collective bargaining state.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/05/us/west-virginia-teachers-strike/index.html
 
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anybody can teach. anyone. so they need to make a decent living but not much more than the equivalent of 40k here. there is a map of how much a dollar is worth across the country, adjust it to that. you want more than that work 12 months out of the year and actually compete with other countries, if not i could hire any idiot that can read to fill in for just about any teacher up to high school. after that you have to be able to read and repeat what you're told. outside of the sht they have to put up with it's a cake job. can you perhaps point to a person now who couldn't do pe, study hall, home econ, etc... all the way up to graduation
This is truly a pathetic statement; I'm not saying all teachers are good, but a lot of them are-- at least in states and countries that have good education systems because they pay their teachers decently.

And if you think that "just any idiot" can be a good teacher-- well, you are wrong. I'd love to see people like you have to teach for a year and see how your tune changes.

For the record, I went to a top tier law school, and I can say, without hesitation that most of the people I met there would NOT be able to hack it as public school teachers. This isn't to say that most teachers are "as smart as lawyers" or anything like that, but teaching is a distinct skill. Being a good teacher requires a mix of competent content knowledge, excellent social skills, passion, and good heartedness. It requires much more rounded competency than most "jobs."

If your argument is "that most teachers aren't good" I'd suggest you figure out ways to attract better people into the profession, rather than belittling and degrading the compensation that good teachers deserve.
 
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Every single person I went to school with who went into teaching was not the cream of the crop. They went into teaching because it’s easy. Dealing with families sucks. And it looks like your numbers are off, 17% leave in five
https://edsource.org/2015/half-of-n...sion-in-5-years-not-true-new-study-says/83054
ednext_XVI_1_goldhaber_fig01.jpg


The average new teacher is above average, lately, and it's not hard to find teachers at a high school who scored in the 90th or 95th percentile on the SAT and ACT.

It's also not that rare to find teachers generally who scored in the top third. in 2010, the number of new teachers coming from the top third had risen dramatically, to more than 40 percent. And fewer than 20 percent of new teachers scored in the bottom third. Those numbers are for New York, but the article claims they match up nationally. I don't really have time to dig into that now though.
 
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This is truly a pathetic statement; I'm not saying all teachers are good, but a lot of them are-- at least in states and countries that have good education systems because they pay their teachers decently.

And if you think that "just any idiot" can be a good teacher-- well, you are wrong. I'd love to see people like you have to teach for a year and see how your tune changes.

For the record, I went to a top tier law school, and I can say, without hesitation that most of the people I met there would NOT be able to hack it as public school teachers. This isn't to say that most teachers are "as smart as lawyers" or anything like that, but teaching is a distinct skill. Being a good teacher requires a mix of competent content knowledge, excellent social skills, passion, and good heartedness. It requires much more rounded competency than most "jobs."

If your argument is "that most teachers aren't good" I'd suggest you figure out ways to attract better people into the profession, rather than belittling and degrading the compensation that good teachers deserve.
Ah the old good teacher argument
Define that
What standard? If they’re aren’t all good like you said can I replace the bad ones with any idiot? Can we fire the bad ones? No? Well then turns out we agree
 
ednext_XVI_1_goldhaber_fig01.jpg


The average new teacher is above average, lately, and it's not hard to find teachers at a high school who scored in the 90th or 95th percentile on the SAT and ACT.

It's also not that rare to find teachers generally who scored in the top third. in 2010, the number of new teachers coming from the top third had risen dramatically, to more than 40 percent. And fewer than 20 percent of new teachers scored in the bottom third. Those numbers are for New York, but the article claims they match up nationally. I don't really have time to dig into that now though.
Sat scores don’t mean much. Remember teachers tell us we can’t go by test scores when we rate their performance. So it does matter now or doesn’t it?
 
Sat scores don’t mean much. Remember teachers tell us we can’t go by test scores when we rate their performance. So it does matter now or doesn’t it?
I think it is fair to use a test to measure someone... provided it is their own test.

Teachers, from what I understand, just don't want to be evaluated (solely) based on someone else's test scores.

Seems fair.

If I'm a teacher, come see me teach. Evaluate me on what I do.

It's like, you don't fire a cop because a city's crime rate goes up, do you?

You don't fire a fireman just because there are more fires, right?

How do you evaluate cops and firefighters, then? You LOOK at them-- you WATCH whether or not they do their job right.

Same with teachers. Why is that a controversial thing?

Ah the old good teacher argument
Define that
What standard?
Did you go to school? Did you know which teachers were good? What criteria did you use?

If they’re aren’t all good like you said can I replace the bad ones with any idiot?
Why don't you replace the bad ones with... people who you hope will be good...

Can we fire the bad ones? No? Well then turns out we agree
This is just a wrong argument. Teachers can be fired.

If you look at the data, every year 2.1% of teachers-- including tenured teachers-- are fired for poor performance. You might argue that number is too low... OK. Fair enough. But then it's on the districts and administrators to step up their enforcement game. The process already exists.

https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/sass/tables/sass0708_2009320_d1s_08.asp

Being in a union or having tenure doesn't mean that a teacher can't be fired. It simply establishes due process.
 
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Sat scores don’t mean much. Remember teachers tell us we can’t go by test scores when we rate their performance. So it does matter now or doesn’t it?
So what's your metric for whether or not they are the cream of the crop? Whatever it is, I doubt it's anything you can actually apply across the board as well as the SAT.
 
So what's your metric for whether or not they are the cream of the crop? Whatever it is, I doubt it's anything you can actually apply across the board as well as the SAT.
these are people i knew and interacted with for years. one of them is intelligent and hardworking (though i don't consider 40 a week the grind stone, but still). the rest were dipshits who couldn't do anything else and in a couple cases failed at normal jobs and went into teaching. conversely i know a very sharp teacher who quit teaching to come work with me, so not a teacher any more and had to pass a test with a crazy high fail rate (majority fail) to get in.
 
I think it is fair to use a test to measure someone... provided it is their own test.

Teachers, from what I understand, just don't want to be evaluated (solely) based on someone else's test scores.

Seems fair.

If I'm a teacher, come see me teach. Evaluate me on what I do. But don't evaluate me solely based on what my students do-- that's on them as much as it's on me.

It's like, you don't fire a cop because a city's crime rate goes up, do you?

You don't fire a fireman because there are more fires, right?

How do you evaluate cops and firefighters, then? You LOOK at them-- you WATCH whether or not they do their job right.

Same with teachers. Why is that a controversial thing?
we do fire police for higher crime rates (e.g.: voting out a sheriff) and we do fire firemen for not meeting standards. so if a fire team went to fires all year and the fires burned out of control we would fire them, except for in the case of polcie and firemen their unions protect the bad ones so it's very hard to get rid of them. there are whole threads on this here. same goes for teachers
 
outside of raping students can you show me poorly performing teachers being fired?

Let’s not pretend you are interested in any sort of actual dialogue, cincy. Everyone here is well aware of your posting style and shtick. I am not going to waste much time with someone like you.
I’ll leave you with this, which is an actual numerical breakdown of number of teachers fired. The most common way to “fire” a teacher is by not renewing a contract.
https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2009/2009320/tables/sass0708_2009320_d1n_08.asp
 
When government employees strike for more money it isn't really good for labor, specifically the hardworking people who's taxes pay for the government employees.

hi and well met Jkillah,

on one hand, i get that. the teachers are essentially asking for either state spending to be cut and re-directed towards their own salaries, or they're asking for property taxes to go up and the revenue to be directed towards their salaries.

still, at least in West Virginia, the people of the state thus far seem to support the teachers.

here's where i can see the reason in what you're driving at; the public, generally speaking, is always going to support things like teachers salaries, along with salary and pension hikes for police and firefighters - particularly if the choices are presented in a line item manner.

i mean, who doesn't want to support teachers, police and firefighters?

when you take all these things in the aggregate, though, and explode a state budget...they're not really sustainable, not if people insist on not raising state income and property taxes.

it's a problem.

people want stuff that sounds noble (and that's a commendable thing) but seem unable to come to grips with the cost. a disconnect, you know?

- IGIT
 
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