University of Alaska study on WTC Building 7 concludes it could not have come down due to fires

[Guestx]

Is any of this unusual? I am under the impression that there could be plenty of foreign agents on US soil and they might all have tools of their trade with them.

I'm sure some of that shit is going on, but there's a reason that the FBI arrested them, put a hold on the case after a judge ordered them to be deported, detained them for over two months, held some of them in solitary confinement for 40 days, administered multiple polygraph tests, and searched the offices of the "moving company" they worked for out of suspicion that it could be a front for Israeli intelligence operations.

Lots of people had strange reactions to 9/11. Some because they were pleased America was being attacked, some because they couldn't process it.

And maybe I need to reread the article, but I didn't walk away from it thinking they were on site to document the attack before it happened. Is that what happened?

Well we just don't know precisely who they were or why they were there. Whoever they were, they must have been important to Israel, because Israel stepped in and worked out a deal to have them returned. Even the FBI isn't sure. According to the article, "Despite the denials, sources tell ABCNEWS there is still debate within the FBI over whether or not the young men were spies. Many U.S. government officials still believe that some of them were on a mission for Israeli intelligence."

It's a mystery and all we can do is speculate.

 

[JosephDredd]

I'm sure some of that shit is going on, but there's a reason that the FBI arrested them, put a hold on the case after a judge ordered them to be deported, detained them for over two months, held some of them in solitary confinement for 40 days, administered multiple polygraph tests, and searched the offices of the "moving company" they worked for out of suspicion that it could be a front for Israeli intelligence operations.



Well we just don't know precisely who they were or why they were there. Whoever they were, they must have been important to Israel, because Israel stepped in and worked out a deal to have them returned. Even the FBI isn't sure. According to the article, "Despite the denials, sources tell ABCNEWS there is still debate within the FBI over whether or not the young men were spies. Many U.S. government officials still believe that some of them were on a mission for Israeli intelligence."

It's a mystery and all we can do is speculate.

This all sounds really normal to me. Do you remember how extreme security measures became after 9/11? What happened to the Israelis happened to a lot of people. And every country would step in and try to have their citizens returned to them from that kind of police action.

This incident doesn't sound unusual to me at all, except that it really looks like they were foreign intelligence agents. Lots of people went through this process and they weren't intelligence agents at all.

 

[Guestx]

This all sounds really normal to me. Do you remember how extreme security measures became after 9/11? What happened to the Israelis happened to a lot of people. And every country would step in and try to have their citizens returned to them from that kind of police action.

This incident doesn't sound unusual to me at all, except that it really looks like they were foreign intelligence agents. Lots of people went through this process and they weren't intelligence agents at all.

It's precisely their ties to a middle-eastern intelligence agency that make it notable. . .

 

[JosephDredd]

It's precisely their ties to a middle-eastern intelligence agency that make it notable. . .

Oh ok, I see what your concern is now. I'm curious why they were so sloppy. That might be the most ridiculous way in all of history that a group of spies was caught. If they were spies, I guess.

No one in that article is quoting an FBI official as saying they may have been involved in 9/11. Do you think they were? All the information I've read since 9/11 indicates Saudi involvement, not Israeli involvement. Israelis weren't the ones being flown out before they could be questioned by the FBI. These are the real points to hang a conspiracy theory on, imo.

 

[splendica]

People don't like thier selfish, simple-minded, t.v watching, consumer conscience life messed with.

Can't say I really blame them. No one wants to think thier own government as being capable of killing citizens they are sworn to protect.....because it opens the doors to a very problematic series of uncomfortable questions that leave you feeling powerless and incapable. Which the above described prideful people don't ever want to admit;

They're wrong, weak, not in control, powerless, and need help. I think Frank Sinatra said it best, "I did it my way." Is how I look at people like this.

There's going to be allot of weeping and gnashing of teeth here pretty soon.

I agree man.

 

[Guestx]

No one in that article is quoting an FBI official as saying they may have been involved in 9/11. Do you think they were? All the information I've read since 9/11 indicates Saudi involvement, not Israeli involvement. Israelis weren't the ones being flown out before they could be questioned by the FBI. These are the real points to hang a conspiracy theory on, imo.

I think it's possible that they may have had foreknowledge of the event and were there because they knew it was going to happen.

 

[sickc0d3r]

They actually flew a jumbo jet... followed by a smaller plane... into the tallest building in a block full of buildings... it really isn't that shocking that some buildings fell down.

And I remember before 9/11 I could walk all the way to the terminal and greet a family member, without a ticket, and with a switchblade in my pocket, 50's greaser style, no problem. In those days it was just the drug sniffing dogs catching you with some weed that people worried about. It didn't take a high level conspiracy to make it possible for a few suicidal nutjobs with a crackerjack box pilot's license to take over a plane.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

In 2015 a team at the University of Alaska launched a research project to determine the cause of the collapse of WTC Building 7 on 9/11.

Project promo:



In 2016 they announced their preliminary findings:



Three days ago the professor in charge of the project gave a presentation at the University:

https://media.uaf.edu/media/t/0_rxmrybkv

The full and final report is expected in 2018.

Discuss.

Did they say anything about that gaping hole in corning of the building?

 

[Lex Bigelow]

Mossad knew.

 

[NakedRare]

The heavily pro-Israel, FOX news did a four part report on Israeli involvement. They stated in no uncertain terms that any information regarding Israeli involvement was classified. Anyone waiting for "our" government to fill us in there should not be holding their breath.

Part one here:



Israelis were involved. Think of the power these people must hold to literally have information classified that pertains to a mass murder on OUR SOIL. Their power was so great by 1967, that they were able to covered up the USS Liberty mass murder... and decades later, they covered up their involvement in 9/11.

This guy here is a pretty damn good source...

“They did it. Israel did 9/11.” Dr. Alan Sabrosky, U.S. Army War College, Director of Studies



I am not sure I believe that "Israel did 9/11," but they definitely were involved.

 

[Sonnyboi83]

It looks exactly like controlled demolition.

The collapse started from the center. Exactly is how controlled demolition is carried out to prevent debris from scattering outward.

 

[lfd0311]

Excuse my interjection lfd0311, but do you hold the opinion that the collapses of WTC1 and WTC2 had any more importance to the collapse of WTC7 other than initiating the fires in WTC7? Because if you do then you appear to be at odds with the official NIST explanation.

Your words:
One of the buildings fell onto Building 7. The "debris" that @Der Eisbar is constantly scoffing at in this thread is in fact the mass of one of the towers falling onto Building 7.

The words of NIST:
Other than initiating the fires in WTC 7, the damage from the debris from WTC 1 had little effect on initiating the collapse of WTC 7. The building withstood debris impact damage that resulted in seven exterior columns being severed and subsequently withstood fires involving typical office combustibles on several floors for almost seven hours. The debris damaged the spray-applied fire resistive material that was applied to the steel columns, girders, and beams, only in the vicinity of the structural damage from the collapse of WTC 1. This was near the west side of the south face of the building and was far removed from the buckled column that initiated the collapse. Even without the structural damage, WTC 7 would have collapsed from fires having the same characteristics as those experienced on September 11, 2001. The transfer elements such as trusses, girders, and cantilever overhangs that were used to support the office building over the Con Edison substation did not play a significant role in the collapse of WTC 7.

It was the collapse of that building that severed those support columns and started those fires. They couldn't put the fires out, and the fires burned for hours. I'm not honestly sure what point you're trying to make.

 

[lfd0311]

He was on the board of the security company from 1993 to 2000. I don't believe I said any different. I provided several links to this.

I'm not trying to be rude, but most of the links you've posted come from Truther Websites. Those hold no weight whatsoever anywhere outside of the Truther world. You can't find any mention of it outside of that. On top of that, 2000 is a full year prior to 9/11. What sort of relevance does that have?

No one is denying that planes (or the slight possibility of bombs) hit the buildings causing those explosions.

The mathematical probability of those bombs being planted precisely where they're needed, and then someone being able to fly the plane directly where the bombs are planted is so high as to appear absurd.

I've watched so many videos on this and I disagree. Here's one anyway; I hope you watch it through:

I spent 8 years in the Marine Corps, I'm very aware of what explosions and thermite look like. I've seen it before. There is none of that present at the world trade center.

It is so extremely doubtful to me that a chunk of building from the twin towers would cause this:

By "a chunk" we're talking a section of the building made up of numerous stories, falling onto yet another building, severing 7 of the outer support columns, the most important columns of the building, and starting massive fires on numerous floors that raged unchecked for hours. What is about that makes you extremely doubtful?

There are so many videos out there disproving the accepted (by the masses) collapse theory.

Like pretty much everything in this realm, they don't disprove anything. How esle do you explain the support columns ending up elsewhere? And this is the main problem with the Conspiracy realm. You're not really interested with the truth. Not being part of "The Masses" being part of the group that "gets it" seems to be the motivation.

 

[lfd0311]

The collapse started from the center. Exactly is how controlled demolition is carried out to prevent debris from scattering outward.

Except for the fact that the debris covered a mile of the city and there is no explosions to be seen.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

I would hope that everyone would think it's important to fully understand the causes behind the loss of over 2000 lives.

The cause is dead as are all major planners and pilots/ muscle.

 

[lfd0311]

You've said this a few times no so can you source it? Everything I've read stated that Marvin Bush was directly involved with Securacom, which had done security work for the WTC.

Even this 9/11 debunking site says as much:

http://www.911myths.com/html/stratesec.html

Again, find something that states this, outside of the Conspiracy/debunking community. He's been an investment banker his entire life. You can't even look him up without running into 9/11 claims, and it isn't even a consensus amongst Truthers what his role was. On top of all that, what significance does him being on a board of directors for a company prior to the attack have? Like you have to make that make sense. It has no connection or bearing on anything.

 

[lfd0311]

I have studied this for 15 years. Read tons of books (from both sides). Watched countless documentaries (from both sides) and watched an enormous amount of unbiased footage of all the events on my own. To me it's not a matter of conspiracy theories or truthers. To me, it's completely asinine that anyone could believe the official story. Open your eyes. Use your brain. Think.

It's funny to me, that us "truthers" are considered tin foil hat wearing idiots, when we have actually studied this topic. Looked at it from all angles. Listened to experts. Yes EXPERTS. Pilots, architecs, engineers, controled demolition experts, etc... Yet, others just watched Fox News and took their word for it. Who's the idiots?

Yep. I agree 100%. It's crazy that there are people on here that DON'T question the official story. It makes no sense.

So This:

Turned to this:

Yet this:

Became this:

Totally makes sense!

Wanna know what else makes sense? That the 3 towers defied physics and was able to crush through 47 floors and 110 floors of steel and concrete at near free fall speeds.

For anyone that doesn't know, free fall speeds means the rate at which something falls without ANY resistance. Here's the definition:

"In Newtonian physics, free fall is any motion of a body where gravity is the only force acting upon it. In the context of general relativity, where gravitation is reduced to a space-time curvature, a body in free fall has no force acting on it and moves along a geodesic."

So 110 floors (wtc 1&2) or 47 floors (wtc7) was able to fall where gravity is the only force acting upon it, not being slower down by steel, concrete, office furniture, etc... for the pancake effect? Ok.

The NIST report is so flawed and full of shit. They made the computer program that showed how WTC7 collapsed. . Let me repeat that so people can let that sink in for a second... NIST created the program that they showed how it happened. And when other scientists, architects and engineers wanted to see/use the program to test for themselves, NIST would not allow them to.

Imagine if Jon Jones made a computer program to show how he did not use steroids.

Every time a post starts out with "I've been studying this for 15 years" I know automatically where it's going. No you haven't. You haven't been "studying". You haven't been "researching". You've been hanging out in goofball chatrooms listening to other people babble about things they don't understand. You keep talking about experts, what experts are you citing? Why do you never achknowledge the work of the experts (Literal thousands more than conspiracy "experts") who outright categorically refute your points? Truthers drive me crazy. You constantly babble about Opening your eyes and using your brain. That literally isn't even an original line. It's been old and a staple of idiotic troofer posters for over a decade. Nobody is impressed by it. Nobody considers you a deep thinker. I mean, even your attempts at insults (Fox News burns? Really?) are old and tired. Look at how dishonest your arguments are. Show one building, on fire, at night. Show another building in it's normal condition, then show it after it's collapsed. Pretend to be a deep thinker. Continue on no matter how many times you get debunked.

 

[lfd0311]

Right... so if the top floors of WTC 1&2 collapsed, I could possibly see that. That could make sense. However there were 90 floors below that was not hit by an airplane. 90 floors that did not have fires. Yet those 90 floors crumbled from " deteriorated and melted steel".

Your quote:
It's just silly to pretend like something needs to happen every single time to be possible. Sometimes your car will break down due to a part gone bad. Does that mean that the part should fail for all similar cars under moderately similar conditions?

Ever heard of science?

sci·ence
ˈsīəns/
noun

1. the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

@jgarner, you're a Structural Engineer, correct?

 

[lfd0311]

Says the pot to the kettle.

I'm prettty sure the dude you're talking to is actually an Engineer and you're a goofball repeating nonsense, on top of the fact that the 9/11 truth movement has not "debunked" a single thing. Ever.

 

[lfd0311]

And yet you insist we must believe that 19 idiots led by a man on a dialysis machine, in a cave somewhere in Afghanistan could have pulled this off.

You are both hypocritical and also, obviously not real bright.

Oh my god. This is the stupidest, and easily the most racist, P.S., argument there is.

1.) Why would he be in a cave? Please make that make f**king sense for me.

2.) What does being on dialysis have to do with shit? Again, flesh your argument out to something real.

3.) 18 SAUDIS, your freaking moke. and a single Jordanian. How would that benefit us? On top of that Mohammed Atta was a Western educated Engineer, please pretend that these were stupid, uneducated people because you don't like Arabs.

And again, come up with some new bullshit. Do you have any idea how many times I've read this exact same shitpost, verbatim over the last 15 years? IT ISN'T ORIGINAL. IT ISN'T COMPELLING. YOU AREN'T INTELLIGENT OR INTERESTING IN ANYWAY BECAUSE YOU REPEAT THE SAME TIRED OLD TROPES OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. Jesus.