Unarmed techniques against knife attackers are stupid

Discussion in 'Weapons and Tactics' started by TheAxVictim, Aug 20, 2017.

  1. TheAxVictim White Belt

    TheAxVictim
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    Although the UFC has done a lot to kill Bullshido, there's still a big elephant in the room that refuses to die: unarmed techniques against knife attackers. It really blows my mind how people can still believe in this crap, especially when there's almost no example of them being executed in real life.

    The closest I could find was this badass Chinese female cop sneaking behind a guy, but even then if she failed they could have blasted him before he stabbed her to death.



    Nevertheless, self-Defense systems like Krav Maga still teach this crap like it was proven in real life. What they should be teaching people is to carry a concealed knife and use it against a knife wielding attacker.

    [​IMG]

    So learning something like Argentina's Esgrima Criolla would be more helpful in the street than bullshido fantasy techniques.

    [​IMG]
     
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    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017
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  2. n.diazismylife1999 Black Belt

    n.diazismylife1999
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    No, they're not. Countless of people have survived knife attacks while unarmed. I personally know half a dozen people who've disarmed people with knives, a couple of them (bouncers) more times than can be counted with fingers of both hands.

    Knives are dangerous, but they do not transform the wielder into Achilles. Weapons are the focal point of an individual's lethality, and while a knife can cut an artery just by bad luck, and thus should always be treated seriously, someone who doesn't know how to fight doesn't turn into a killing machine just by taking a knife in their hands.

    Also, most people survive being attacked by a knife. Mortality rate is something like 10%. Case in point: the recent terror attack in Finland, done with a knife, where the perp targeted women and stabbed each multiple times. Only two died (out of 8 or 10).

    Lastly, trying something is better than lying down and waiting for death, or standing and watching your loved ones being slaughtered.
     
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  3. DoctorTaco Breadhead

    DoctorTaco
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    Jits and wrestling seem to work just fine
     
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  4. TheAxVictim White Belt

    TheAxVictim
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    You don't need to take a course to understand how to kill somebody with a knife. Knives are force multipliers, which makes unarmed fighting against an attacker incredibly risky and stupid.

    You wouldn't fight a guy wielding a 9 mm with a bow and arrow, crossbow, or a 19th smoothbore pistol if you could get a modern pistol, yet much of the martial art community still clings to the idea that the best way to fight a knife attacker is by willingly giving yourself a handicap and try to disarm him. That stuff belongs in a Steven Seagal movie, not in a self-defense scenario.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017
  5. n.diazismylife1999 Black Belt

    n.diazismylife1999
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    No shit it's better to fight a knife-wielder with a knife of your own, or with a gun, or a tank. That doesn't make unarmed techniques against knives "stupid."

    What are you going to do if you don't have access to a weapon of your own? Lie down and wait for death? Beg? Watch your family butchered?

    And yeah, you don't need a course to understand how to kill someone that's sleeping with a knife. It's a different story against a resisting opponent.

    Statistics don't lie. What are lies are the hysteric statements about knives by those who have something to gain. E.g., people teaching or advertising knife-fighting systems.

    Again, a ton of people manage to do just fine against knives. Unarmed.
     
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  6. Quiz White Belt

    Quiz
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    Is the OP really advocating knife fights?

    Have you never heard the old saying about a knife fight?

    The loser dies on the scene; the winner dies in the ambulance on the way to the hospital.

    A knife fight is lose/lose.
     
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  7. TheAxVictim White Belt

    TheAxVictim
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    By fine do you mean surviving with multiple stabbing wounds? Well yeah sure. There are also many people that survive handgun wounds, but I wouldn't call that "doing fine". Personally, I would rather get out of the situation with just a few cuts in my forearms rather than with multiple 5-inch stab wounds in my torso.

    The problem with the unarmed school of thought is that they don't teach these unarmed techniques as an absolute last resort tool, but rather as THE way to deal with a knife attacker. And what's the point of honing so much one skill that you wouldn't even need if you carried and knew how to use a knife in the first place? Would you go out at night trusting only in your hands to save your life? Come on...


    I heard one where the loser dies and the winner goes to jail, and frankly I would much rather go to jail than to the morgue.
     
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  8. n.diazismylife1999 Black Belt

    n.diazismylife1999
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    No, I mean handling the attacker either with no wounds or superficial cuts. This happens all the time. More often than lethal knife attacks.

    Source? That sounds like some serious straw manning. I've never heard anyone say that.


    Because, for one, knives aren't legal everywhere. And second, unless you're paranoid of knife attacks to the extent that your life is negatively affected by it, you won't have a knife by your side 24/7.

    And yes, I would (and do) go out at night trusting only my hands to save my life. Worked out swell for me so far. Just like it has for everyone I know.
     
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  9. TheAxVictim White Belt

    TheAxVictim
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    "Better to have it and not need it than
    to need it and not have it."
     
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  10. MaxMMA Blue Belt

    MaxMMA
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    I always assumed your best bet against a knife wielding opponent would be to unleash a volley of strikes in an attempt to KO them or knock them down. Someone coming at you with a knife, you are going to get stuck, I don't believe there is anyway out of that.

    My next question though is what to do once the fight closes into clinch range. Attempt to control the knife hand? Or drive them to the ground and continue your attempt to KO them there?

    Like I said, you are going to get stuck, might as well try to Fuck the guy up while he's sticking you. If he's focused on using that knife, I'm assuming his confidence will be high and I doubt someone in this situation will be protecting their head very good nor will they probably expect you start throwing punches and kicks.
     
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  11. n.diazismylife1999 Black Belt

    n.diazismylife1999
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    Depends. There's no right answer to "what move to use in a fight to win" either.

    Sometimes your best bet is attacking without caring about the knife, sometimes you'll want to control it and grapple, sometimes you'll want to block and strike at the same time.

    Most self-defense systems have a preferred method, of course. If possible, I'd ideally go for simultaneous control (with one hand) and striking. Untrained people fixate on their weapons and will focus all their attention on it, so if you can assert any control at all on the knife arm, they'll often forget all about everything else in their attempt to free their knife for an attack.

    That presumes you know how to do damage quickly. A safer option, often, is controlling the knife arm with both hands and taking it to the ground. That's how you usually see these situations handled.
     
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  12. TheAxVictim White Belt

    TheAxVictim
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    What do you train? I mean for unarmed vs knife.
     
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  13. n.diazismylife1999 Black Belt

    n.diazismylife1999
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    I only train combat sports at the moment, but I've trained knife defense in European JJ, Escrima, and Krav Maga.
     
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  14. TheAxVictim White Belt

    TheAxVictim
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    Doesn't Escrima have knife on knife techniques?

    Also, what is European JJ?
     
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  15. n.diazismylife1999 Black Belt

    n.diazismylife1999
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    Yes.

    European jiu-jitsu.
     
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  16. TheAxVictim White Belt

    TheAxVictim
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    But what is European Jiu-Jitsu? I'm googling it and all I see is championships and organizations. Is it like a style of Jiu-Jitsu? Like Russian Judo is different from Japanese Judo.
     
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  17. Cuauhtemoc Red Belt

    Cuauhtemoc
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    OP is suggesting people carry around knives, which is illegal in many places, and engage in fights like 19th century gauchos.
    Pro tip: carry a gun.
     
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  18. n.diazismylife1999 Black Belt

    n.diazismylife1999
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    European styles of jiu jitsu. British and German are the most prominent ones. EJJ isn't a style by itself.
     
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  19. TheAxVictim White Belt

    TheAxVictim
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    Those gauchos really knew how to use a knife man!

    Of course a gun is better, but what I'm saying is that it doesn't make sense that so many martial arts promote magic wrist locks and unrealistic unarmed techniques that are too complicated to be executed in a life or death scenario.

    Having a knife and training how to use it makes more sense than not carrying a knife and training how to beat the unfavorable odds which are stacked against you if you're fighting unarmed.
     
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  20. Cuauhtemoc Red Belt

    Cuauhtemoc
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    I'm partially gaucho(from southern brazil), btw, although I didn't really grow around the culture I grew up in a city.


    Anyway, I think that both sides are wrong in this case. I see some knife advocates saying all knife disarms are stupid but at the same time many of the techniques are indeed stupid. To hurt somebody with a knife, especially with a cut through clothing isn't that easy, sometimes I see these knife instructors doing little quick slashes showing how easy it is to cut somebody, but they're wrong.
    At the same time I see self defense idiots where the guy holding the knife stands still and let himself be disarmed.

    I think that some simple disarm techniques or techniques to maintain distance like using a chair or something are valid. The deadliest knife attacks though are surprise attacks. Where you think you're facing an unarmed attacker and he pulls a knife you didn't even see
     
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