Unarmed against a knife. Options and techniques.

TheMaster

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So you dont have a weapon on you and facing a person wielding a knife.
Yes you should have had situational awareness etc but you got caught
Obviously run is best option but maybe you cant or have someone with you.

Maybe even you have an EDC or weapon on you but you might not have time to draw it so basically unarmed.

Opinions on any techniques you would try to use in this situation that can be considered reliable?
If anyone has experience of this would be nice to hear.

Kick to groin may be an option
Kick to the knife hand has been suggested but seems risky
Otherwise maybe go for a single disabling strike and simultaneous control of knife arm with the other hand but again the strike better finish it

A wrist control and knife/sword disarm style like Aikido is developed for this situation, so may be useful if combined with a disabling strike of some form but obviously still very risky.

Thoughts?
 
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Nicolaes_Petter_64.jpg

This is from "Klare Onderrichtinge der Voortreffelijke Worstel-Konst" from 1647. The kick does work, but it's always a matter of distance and how the other guy holds the knife. In this case, he is using the "Oriental" way of holding a knife (this is what they call it in Krav Maga at least).

You can read it here:
https://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Klare_Onderrichtinge_der_Voortreffelijke_Worstel-Konst_(Nicolaes_Petter)
 
My hometown/province has a growing rate of random stabbings and theft. They'd come with ice picks, knives, and small machetes.

I highly suggest packing clothing that is resistant to stabbing and slashing since people armed with blades usually go for an surprise attack and could be in groups. Watch the way the knife is held if he brandishes it out, though knives are usually used as an ambush type weapon. It's easier if the knife is brandished.

I'd prefer to keep distance with push/teep kicks.

However in a scenario wherein you are trying to apprehend a knife wielding assailant off another person, then you could simply ambush the attacker and strike the windpipe hard.
 
When I used to practice this sort of then I noticed that grabbing the knife guy's hand/wrist would many times induce him to switch it to the other hand to continue attacking. but if you could lay on top the knife hand, similar to:

ip+man+bruce+lee.jpg


He'd tried to beat it long enough for you to punch him in the face.
 
Yelling "I have hepatitis C!!!" and aggressively bleeding at your attacker.
 
Grab a chair, pots, pans or even a book. If you are in a kitchen, I sure you can find some quality meat cleavers and big chef knives.
 
It seems from the lack of responses, people on here dont take this question very seriously or maybe some are walking around with a false sense of security because they carry a glock or what have you.
Trouble is, you might be surprised and confronted or else find yourself in a situation and have to react.

Law enforcement data say you need I think at least 8 meters distance if someone charges you with a knife to have time to withdraw, aim and fire even if you have a holstered or concealed gun on you so to not have a plan or training for this situation is a serious oversight.
Plus there are lots of situations where you cant carry.
Obviously if you have time and opportunity getting an equalizer of some form would help but not always possible.
 
You run, There is no technique when the other person has a knife, no matter what you do you will likely get cut. I think this was tested many times by law enforcement and the military, they used a marker as a knife.

You might just get lucky and kick the knife out of their hands, but if they get close be ready to be cut.
 
You run, There is no technique when the other person has a knife, no matter what you do you will likely get cut. I think this was tested many times by law enforcement and the military, they used a marker as a knife.

You might just get lucky and kick the knife out of their hands, but if they get close be ready to be cut.

The point of the thread was in situations where you cant run, like if you have someone with you who could not also outrun the perp, otherwise yes you could both run. But if they cant and you had to face and fight then there needs to be a plan and some preparation.
Even if you carry, within a certain range there isn't going to be time to withdraw
Yes maybe you get cut but perhaps you can control where like outside of forearm then try to finish with the other hand.
 
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The illusion that many people have and that the opponent will attack you with a knife and esapera you hold his hand. But he will attack you with all his strength. The best option is to deflect the glop and attack at the same time.
This is a technique of Brazilian Kombato, which is very efficient.


1193702379.14.jpg
 
It seems from the lack of responses, people on here dont take this question very seriously

{<huh}

Puzzled, what were you expecting? Its a crap shoot.

A lot of this is good:

.

I'd say overall its very difficult to catch the knife of a good or even ok knife attacker. More times than not you have just enough time if you spot the opening to punch them in the face. Or foot sweet or kick their knee cap off.

You have to realize it, see it, and be willing to take your one shot against that charging elephant.
Any hesitation and you're usually toast.

Its certainly not impossible, the knife guy is human too. Many times its the surprise, and hesitation that stacks the deck in the knife guy's favor.


Its the same or worse when someone employs surprise tactics on you with a gun though.
 
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So you dont have a weapon on you and facing a person wielding a knife.
Yes you should have had situational awareness etc but you got caught
Obviously run is best option but maybe you cant or have someone with you.

Maybe even you have an EDC or weapon on you but you might not have time to draw it so basically unarmed.

Opinions on any techniques you would try to use in this situation that can be considered reliable?
If anyone has experience of this would be nice to hear.

Kick to groin may be an option
Kick to the knife hand has been suggested but seems risky
Otherwise maybe go for a single disabling strike and simultaneous control of knife arm with the other hand but again the strike better finish it

A wrist control and knife/sword disarm style like Aikido is developed for this situation, so may be useful if combined with a disabling strike of some form but obviously still very risky.

Thoughts?

It seems from the lack of responses, people on here dont take this question very seriously or maybe some are walking around with a false sense of security because they carry a glock or what have you.
Trouble is, you might be surprised and confronted or else find yourself in a situation and have to react.

Law enforcement data say you need I think at least 8 meters distance if someone charges you with a knife to have time to withdraw, aim and fire even if you have a holstered or concealed gun on you so to not have a plan or training for this situation is a serious oversight.
Plus there are lots of situations where you cant carry.
Obviously if you have time and opportunity getting an equalizer of some form would help but not always possible.

This sub forum gets very little traffic in general. Although it's called "weapons and tactics" this is basically a gun sub forum. Look at all the forum topics, it's like 99% guns.

My sense of security comes from I highly doubt I will run into a situation like this. I don't start fights with random people, hang out with sketchy people, hang out in sketchy areas, etc. Like 1-2k people every year out of 330 million in the US get stabbed to death so it is already a pretty unlikely situation. So basically I'm not too worried about it.

I'm not sure what you are expecting for answers here. There aren't any experts here. There are "experts" in this area though. There are also probably numerous contrasting techniques taught by those different experts. If you want to learn from one go to Google. Every situation could be very different. Do you want people to guess what they would do in numerous situations and post them all?

I am not trained in this and likely never will pursue training in it but I have an idea of what I think I would do.

Number 1 is try to diffuse, keep space, avoid/evade and escape.

What is the person like, big small fat skinny. Is it a small blade or large blade. Weaker the person and smaller the blade the bigger risk I take. Biggest threat imo is a long puncturing type blade.

Am I carrying my ccw? Can I circle or create space via movement or quick strike and draw. If I can't I see two options that would depend on the attacker. Try to control and then draw when an opportunity presents itself or you know you are getting stabbed so try to prevent a neck or chest stab for a second with my left arm/hand while drawing and firing from the hip.

Not carrying I personally would try to keep distance and possibly dissuade with movement, front kicks, etc. Try to control the hand/knife if possible, while also going for a groin, eyes, wind pipe, disabling strike or whatever presents itself. A lot would depend on the attacker and what they do.

Everything is risky and there probably isn't a correct or "reliable" answer. What might work in one situation against 1 person might not work in another against another.
 
This sub forum gets very little traffic in general. Although it's called "weapons and tactics" this is basically a gun sub forum. Look at all the forum topics, it's like 99% guns.

My sense of security comes from I highly doubt I will run into a situation like this. I don't start fights with random people, hang out with sketchy people, hang out in sketchy areas, etc. Like 1-2k people every year out of 330 million in the US get stabbed to death so it is already a pretty unlikely situation. So basically I'm not too worried about it.

I'm not sure what you are expecting for answers here. There aren't any experts here. There are "experts" in this area though. There are also probably numerous contrasting techniques taught by those different experts. If you want to learn from one go to Google. Every situation could be very different. Do you want people to guess what they would do in numerous situations and post them all?

I am not trained in this and likely never will pursue training in it but I have an idea of what I think I would do.

Number 1 is try to diffuse, keep space, avoid/evade and escape.

What is the person like, big small fat skinny. Is it a small blade or large blade. Weaker the person and smaller the blade the bigger risk I take. Biggest threat imo is a long puncturing type blade.

Am I carrying my ccw? Can I circle or create space via movement or quick strike and draw. If I can't I see two options that would depend on the attacker. Try to control and then draw when an opportunity presents itself or you know you are getting stabbed so try to prevent a neck or chest stab for a second with my left arm/hand while drawing and firing from the hip.

Not carrying I personally would try to keep distance and possibly dissuade with movement, front kicks, etc. Try to control the hand/knife if possible, while also going for a groin, eyes, wind pipe, disabling strike or whatever presents itself. A lot would depend on the attacker and what they do.

Everything is risky and there probably isn't a correct or "reliable" answer. What might work in one situation against 1 person might not work in another against another.

Yes indeed there are many 'experts' as well as contrasting methods so a discussion about this may be interesting and have a few new ideas.
I have some training and strategies for this situation but it is always intetesting to get different perspectives.

Did you ever hear the story about Gracie jiujitsu being originally a self defence art?
Some of us had a similar mindset and took it seriously with our martial training be it Judo, BJJ or otherwise done with this in mind.
Many of the styles used in the sport of mma were originally developed for the purpose so it is a natural extension to discuss the topic about martial against common weapons.
And as I have mentioned, even if you carry it may not always be available as an option.
A related topic is EDC for self defence which there is another thread for.
 
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Correct answers:

  • Run
  • Beat the dude with furniture
 
Jackie Chan would be proud...

On a serious note. I always carry my backpack with me, which I'd use as a makeshift shield.

Experts also recommend wrapping your coat around one arm for a shield. It's a tactic straight from renaissance sword and knife fighting
 
Experts also recommend wrapping your coat around one arm for a shield. It's a tactic straight from renaissance sword and knife fighting
I wonder if there's a martial art from the ol' days that involves shield techniques...might be useful. Bash em with my bag.

I'm also an advocate for cut/stab resistant garments since a stabbing is usually an ambush type scenario, you'd want a passive type of defense against that.

Once engaged, active type defenses come into play (like MA and running).
 
Something to think about when discussing knife fighting or defending against a knife

Fairbairn's Timetable of Death
Brachial Artery - 1/2" below surface of skin - Loss of Consciousness 14 sec - Death in 1 1/2 minutes
Radial Artery - 1/4" below surface of skin - Loss of Consciousness 30 sec - Death 2 minutes
Carotid Artery - 1 1/2" below surface of skin - Loss of Consciousness 5 sec - Death 12 sec.
Subclavian Artery - 2 1/2" below surface of skin - Loss of Consciousness 2 sec - Death 31/2 sec
Heart - 3 1/2" below surface of skin - Loss of consciousness Instantaneous - Death 3 sec
 
Something to think about when discussing knife fighting or defending against a knife

Fairbairn's Timetable of Death
Brachial Artery - 1/2" below surface of skin - Loss of Consciousness 14 sec - Death in 1 1/2 minutes
Radial Artery - 1/4" below surface of skin - Loss of Consciousness 30 sec - Death 2 minutes
Carotid Artery - 1 1/2" below surface of skin - Loss of Consciousness 5 sec - Death 12 sec.
Subclavian Artery - 2 1/2" below surface of skin - Loss of Consciousness 2 sec - Death 31/2 sec
Heart - 3 1/2" below surface of skin - Loss of consciousness Instantaneous - Death 3 sec
Woah....that is interesting....

Most of these are at the upper body....I wonder if your average goon/thug knows enough to attack these areas.

[email protected] are fragile AF......
 
Woah....that is interesting....

Most of these are at the upper body....I wonder if your average goon/thug knows enough to attack these areas.

[email protected] are fragile AF......
Take the times with a grain of salt. Fairbaine came up with his time table from his own experiences in the trenches of ww1. But people are resilient animals and adrenaline and shock are amazing at pushing us through severe trauma longer than we should reasonable be able to last. The vasoconstricting effect that occurs during fight or flight would make for a slower bleed out for instance.
 
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