UFN 132 Cerrone vs Edwards

[Yotsuya]

Ruebusch has a good point that nobody’s tested Cerrone’s ground game in ages.

 

[Wiktoruspro]

So would you agree that in 1.5 years Song had indeed improved his striking to the point where he went from losing to a 0-2 fighter in pure striking to being at Emmett's level? Which fight or fights in particular since the Ondar fights made you think that? I'd like to watch them again and see if I agree with your opinion, so please be specific.

I like Songs stand up more than Felipes, thats all. But you are right, he is unproven against legit competition.

 

[MT6ix]

How do you feel about him getting outboxed and outstruck in 2 consecutrive fights by Renat Onder (0-2 at the time) in WLF just 1.5 years ago?

WLF EPIC 9 vs Renat Ondar (0-2)



WLF WARS 10 vs Renat Ondar (1-2 rematch)



To be fair, Ondar looks to be a pretty decent fighter. But do you think 1.5 years of training is enough to go from losing to a 0-2 guy to UFC level comparable to Josh Emmett? I suppose it is possible, but I'd have to see more than a few minutes of it versus Khandare who is terrible. Very few guys in the UFC just stand there and let a wide right hand land like that.

Vast improvement will be necessary for Yadong to even compete imo. But Faber's faith in the guy (called him "our Chinese guy" and traveled to Singapore to support him and Teruto) has me a bit worried. I expect his striking to be improved, but I'm not sure he could've improved both striking and grappling in 1.5 years.

When I say Song is UFC level, I'm definitely not referring to a contender but someone that could alternate wins and losses. When you watch Song fight in the Ondar fights, he has the athleticism, aggressive nature and some tools but the technique isn't there, understanding of range/distance. I don't bet many Asian fighters because I feel a lot of guys they fight are cans and when they step into the UFC it's a big step up. Some guys have bucked the trend like Jingliang, Wang Guan

I feel that a lot of Asian fighters would benefit by moving to US and joining a good camp. Learn from UFC fighters, better trainers, better sparring partners. I think Song will benefit a lot from training at TAM. He has physical tools to compete in the UFC but on the lower end. Wang Guan really benefitted by training at ATT but he is definitely a lot better fighter than Song.

In terms of striking, you can improve a lot in 1.5 years depending where you are training and your athleticism. Grappling not so much in 1.5 years unless you are a prodigy.

You are swaying me towards a bet on Arantes at pickem. The thing that concerns me with Song is the physicality and reach. If Arantes muscles Song down, he will get submitted because his ground game leaves a lot to be desired.

I do agree the Bhandare fight tells you nothing. Not many decent UFC fighter will tap there.

 

[Stunna77]

Spoiler

can someone explain to a noob how to share a Youtube video on here? lol

 

[Karmello]

Spoiler

can someone explain to a noob how to share a Youtube video on here? lol

Just copy (CTRL+C or CMD+C on Mac) the link of the youtube video and paste (CTRL+V or CMD+V on Mac) it in your message on Sherdog. You can also use the right click of the mouse to copy and paste, just select the link of the youtube video first, it looks something like this:

 

[Naught2Sixty]

Ruebusch has a good point that nobody’s tested Cerrone’s ground game in ages.

Yeah, I think @lifeisgood12345 alluded to this earlier in the thread. We know Cowboy is a very capable grappler but we have no way of knowing if he's been keeping the knife sharp, so to speak. I used to be pretty fluent in Spanish but I haven't spoken in quite a few years and now I struggle to put sentences together. We know Cowboy trains hard and in all facets but we haven't seen him use BJJ much if at all in any form of competition (that I know of at least). Very hard to where he's at right now with that skillset.

 

[Naught2Sixty]

Just copy (CTRL+C or CMD+C on Mac) the link of the youtube video and paste (CTRL+V or CMD+V on Mac) it in your message on Sherdog. You can also use the right click of the mouse to copy and paste.

@Stunna77 this. Its works the same as you posting a tweet. Just copy paste the link and SD will automatically embed the video.

 

[Stunna77]

Last person who fucked with Cowboy on the ground:

 

[Stunna77]

Just copy (CTRL+C or CMD+C on Mac) the link of the youtube video and paste (CTRL+V or CMD+V on Mac) it in your message on Sherdog. You can also use the right click of the mouse to copy and paste, just select the link of the youtube video first, it looks something like this:
View attachment 396057

@Stunna77 this. Its works the same as you posting a tweet. Just copy paste the link and SD will automatically embed the video.

Motherfucker. I knew I could copy the link, but didn't think it would auto embed. FFS all I had to do was hit post and give it a try lol, thanks gents.

 

[Karmello]

Motherfucker. I knew I could copy the link, but didn't think it would auto embed. FFS all I had to do was hit post and give it a try lol, thanks gents.

Haha ok, no problem

 

[Yotsuya]

Yeah, I think @lifeisgood12345 alluded to this earlier in the thread. We know Cowboy is a very capable grappler but we have no way of knowing if he's been keeping the knife sharp, so to speak. I used to be pretty fluent in Spanish but I haven't spoken in quite a few years and now I struggle to put sentences together. We know Cowboy trains hard and in all facets but we haven't seen him use BJJ much if at all in any form of competition (that I know of at least). Very hard to where he's at right now with that skillset.

I took Edwards dec at very good price hoping that he would edge few rounds on ground without being too much of finish threat, but I'm getting worried now, that if Cowboy is very rusty there, Edwards could get a finish. R5 hedge was cheap, so I got that covered.

 

[Stunna77]

Guys, edwards is not fucking subbing Cerrone. MAYBE he finds some new found aggression and sparks him early, IF Cerrone's chin is in fact deteriorating, but he is not finishing Cerrone on the mat. Not sure where this notion of Edwards being a potent finishing is coming from, dudes a decision machine.

You guys recall that Craig White fella that Magny just KO'd in the 1st? Yeah that guy who has only been to one decision in 22 fights? Guess who that one decision was against?

 

[mkess101]

People are worried about Cowboy's ground game now because he's had mostly stand up fights lately?

Flawed thinking in my eyes. Mess around with him on the mat at your own risk imo.

 

[Naught2Sixty]

I took Edwards dec at very good price hoping that he would edge few rounds on ground without being too much of finish threat, but I'm getting worried now, that if Cowboy is very rusty there, Edwards could get a finish. R5 hedge was cheap, so I got that covered.

I doubt Leon would be able to pass Cowboys guard even if he was rusty. I have him rated as "fair" in passing (no specific details as to why written down) and Cowboy was pretty damn good at blocking passes iirc. MAYBE if Leon hurts Cowboy and follows up with a choke instead of punches or w/e he'll get a submission. Assuming Leon is going for td's and top control.

Guys, edwards is not fucking subbing Cerrone. MAYBE he finds some new found aggression and sparks him early, IF Cerrone's chin is in fact deteriorating, but he is not finishing Cerrone on the mat. Not sure where this notion of Edwards being a potent finishing is coming from, dudes a decision machine.

You guys recall that Craig White fella that Magny just KO'd in the 1st? Yeah that guy who has only been to one decision in 22 fights? Guess who that one decision was against?

Gotcha. I wasnt trying to imply that Edward's is gonna outgrapple and submit Cowboy just putting food out there for thought. I guess I'm not adding anything new anyway.

 

[ill800]

Not really sure what everyone is seeing in Matt Schnell.

After watching some tape I feel like Naoki’s competition hasn’t been so great, but he’s been doing exactly what he should be doing, either finishing all his lesser opponents or getting a unanimous decision over them.

I honestly don’t even feel like Schnell has a striking advantage especially with that chin of his. I have this glaring memory of Hector Sandoval dropping Schnell and tapping his chin with hammerfists, putting him completely out.

His best win is a unanimous over Marco Beltran, he has not only lost to greater competition but gotten finished in the very first round each time, .... feel like he settles at +140ish but still don’t even feel confident enough to bite that @ +160.

I know Naoki fights out of a hole in the wall gym in Japan, fought trash competition.. but still he hasn’t even gone to a split decision. All finishes or unanimous dec.. every time Schnell steps up he fails Badly.. I see him getting out struck and outgrappled here too... maybe even getting finished in the first round again.

Just my opinions I’ll pass on this one I think.. if I’m missing anything feel free to reply although I’ll be cruising back in the thread to see what’s up

Inoue looks like a natural. Calm. collective. Very aggressive jiu jitsu, smooth transitions. And he was only 20 years old tooling a Brazilian National freestyle wrestler (take of that what you will)

And I’m not quite sure he got reversed from the body triangle or if he was setting up that arm triangle choke. He did it twice in that fight.

Beltran started to get comfortable in rd 3 vs Schnell and was pressuring him to where I gave him the rd.

Inoue is going to go after Schnell. He’s not going to sit back like Beltran did for two rds.
He has a lot of potential and we’ve seen these young guys make drastic improvements quickly

 

[zeckdo]

more than average amount of dick measuring and bickering in the thread this week.

1 fight pass card in a 4 week window is making all of us rage.

 

[turbozed]

When I say Song is UFC level, I'm definitely not referring to a contender but someone that could alternate wins and losses. When you watch Song fight in the Ondar fights, he has the athleticism, aggressive nature and some tools but the technique isn't there, understanding of range/distance. I don't bet many Asian fighters because I feel a lot of guys they fight are cans and when they step into the UFC it's a big step up. Some guys have bucked the trend Like Jingliang, Wang Guan

I feel that a lot of Asian fighters would benefit by moving to US and joining a good camp. Learn from UFC fighters, better trainers, better sparring partners. I think Song will benefit a lot from training at TAM. He has physical tools to compete in the UFC but on the lower end. Wang Guan really benefitted by training at ATT but he is definitely a lot better fighter than Song.

In terms of striking, you can improve a lot in 1.5 years depending where you are training and your athleticism. Grappling not so much in 1.5 years unless you are a prodigy.

You are swaying me towards a bet on Arantes at pickem. The thing that concerns me is the physicality and reach. If Arantes muscles Song down, he will get submitted because his ground game leaves a lot to be desired.

I do agree the Bhandare fight tells you nothing. Not many decent UFC fighter will tap there.

Yeah I agree with a lot of Asian fighters being held back by loyalty to their small gyms. It's one of the reasons why I can't back Inoue here against Schnell. I think Naoki has all the technical tools to become really good, but there's other things like strength, conditioning, weight-cutting, that come into play. He just won't be physical enough to compete with a lot of UFC level guys.

I do like the fact that guys like Song Yadong and even Daichi Abe are taking trips to the US to train. Yadong has made multiple trips to TAM and Abe is now training with Bang Ludwig in Colorado. TAM is obviously a great choice for smaller athletic guys like Yadong. Not quite sure if Bang Muay Thai will translate well at 170 since it's so volume-based and is better for smaller weight classes with higher SPM, especially since Abe seems to gas out easily. Colorado's altitude might be helpful for Abe's cardio, however.

1.5 years is a long time for a guy like Yadong to improve. Look at how much better Sayles looked yesterday after a year of intense training at Alliance. However, the difference here is that I haven't heard too many people heap praise on Yadong yet in the gym and Yadong is only a part timer at TAM with still the majority of his training in China. 1.5 years only part timing at TAM is definitely not enough to improve both his striking and his grappling IMO so I might just stick with my 2u bet on Arantes unless I hear something new about him from TAM gym mates or if I can find that Skrivers fight. If he looks as good as he did against Khandare against Skrivers, I would probably buy out part of my bet.

 

[Stunna77]

Inoue looks like a natural. Calm. collective. Very aggressive jiu jitsu, smooth transitions. And he was only 20 years old tooling a Brazilian National freestyle wrestler (take of that what you will)

And I’m not quite sure he got reversed from the body triangle or if he was setting up that arm triangle choke. He did it twice in that fight.

Beltran started to get comfortable in rd 3 vs Schnell and was pressuring him to where I gave him the rd.

Inoue is going to go after Schnell. He’s not going to sit back like Beltran did for two rds.
He has a lot of potential and we’ve seen these young guys make drastic improvements quickly

I don't understand the lines at all, regardless how he calm, collective, and natural he looks against scrubs. Not subbing De Tomas (who is far from ufc caliber) and his overall grappling game in that fight leaves a lot of questions for me about how good of a grappler he truly is. Add in the fact he is undersized and lacks physicality, I think he stuggles against better opposition. He also lacks the power to phase Schnell on the feet IMO.

Not terribly worried about drastic improvements, most young fighters who make it to the UFC do not have their sister as their main training partner..

 

[Sadistics]

And he was only 20 years old tooling a Brazilian National freestyle wrestler (take of that what you will)

Philipino* national freestyle wrestler, big difference

 

[Gugabe]

Last person who fucked with Cowboy on the ground:

Oli gets subbed or almost-subbed a lot, though. Still a little annoyed that Condit couldn't finish the RNC in the first round, since I had 0.5u on the +2000 sub-prop for him.