UFC fighters were always better?

[wilKO]

this is exactly it people.

Pride had better LHWs.

Wand
Shogun
Arona
Rampage
Lil Nog
Overeem
Vitor
Chuck at times
Hendo

UFC had:
Chuck
Randy
Tito
Vitor
Babalu

Thats about it. Not really close in my opinion.

 

[Shaddows]

ok so I seea lot of people on here saying the UFC always had better talent. People bring up how some of the top pride fighters(CC,Shogun,Page,Fedor..etc.) are doing no where near as good as they were in pride. I havent been following mma as long as most of you MMA gurus but my question to you is how can you say UFC fighters were always better when the Pride guys from that time period are doing better now compared the UFC fighters from that time period?? I may be missing something but Id say Shogun, Page, Wand and Fedor would do a lot better against todays top competition compared to Chuck, Sylvia, Tito and Randy.

I am sorry to say, but basically those people are stupid.

Pride heyday was as great as UFC is today.
They are simply the top dogs, and as such, they attract the better talent and invariably have the deepest talent pool.

But the fact Pride fighters didn't do good in UFC has nothing to do with it.

As you accurately pointed out, most UFC fighters that were on top during Pride time are not even fighting anymore.

Add the differences between fighting in pride (pride rules, Ring versus Octagon) and many fighters (specially the top ones) have a hard time getting used to it.

And times changed also. Before, during Pride, fighters were not as well rounded as today. And this is not to say they were lesser fighters. Only that times are different, and anyone that wants to compare Jones with Wandi's heydays and say Jones would destroy Wandi are simply dumb! They are talking about guys who dominated in different eras of the sport.

 

[Gunny]

Pride had better LHWs.

Wand
Shogun
Arona
Rampage
Lil Nog
Overeem
Vitor
Chuck at times
Hendo

UFC had:
Chuck
Randy
Tito
Vitor
Babalu

Thats about it. Not really close in my opinion.

You have to add Forrest and Rashad to the UFC list as they were active during those years.

edit: given how you've constructed you list you should add Rich Franklin and Wanderlei Silva too. You could even add Michael Bisping and Chael Sonnen if you were inclined.

 

[Brandon Taylor]

It goes both ways with the fanboy tactics. Chuck Liddell,Randy Couture, and Matt Hughes, Tito Ortiz are no longer around because they are quite a bit older that Shogun,Rampage,Big Nog, and shoot even Wanderlei.

The cage versus the Ring is a big deal in why fighters have done so differently. Couture looked horrible when he fought in the ring but would have been very competitve in the octagon versus Page,Shogun, or Wanderlei. Fedor was a monster in the ring but looked ordinary in the Strikeforce Cage.

Shogun is 31 now. 25 when he came over.
Rampage is 34 now. 29 when he came over.
Wanderlie is 36 now. 31 when he came over.
Big Nog is 36 now. 31 when he came over.
Cro Cop was the old man of the bunch but he debuted less than 6 months after he won the Openweight GP. He had short shelf life for sure but he was on top of his game when he came over.
Henderson is the one guy that came over super old but he started fighting at alate age and hes the only person to be comparable in physique for an old guy to Randy. Those 2 freaks of nature.

Chuck is 42 now. 37 when he fought Rampage in the UFC. 40 when he fought Shogun.
Randy is 48 now.
Tito is 37 now.
Vitor is the only guy of this group of comparable age to Rampage and Shogun and he is still very much apart of the game.
Hughes is 39 now.

The age difference is why the UFC guys are out. Chuck hung them up 2 years ago. Randy last year and Hughes in the last few years as well. Tito just hung them up too.

Cro Cop hung them up. Anyone that has seen Wanderlei and Big Nog recently can see they are fighting on borrowed time(Big Nog looked in awful shape in his last fight).

Comparing eras, its alot fairer to compare Rampage,Shogun to Machida,Evans,Griffin who have been very competitive in their matchups.

This is what seems to have been ignored in this thread. Pride ended with most their guys still in their prime. The UFC champs were at the end so of course they had less impact after the merger.

I think Pride had the clearly better HW roster during big Tim's rein. The rest was mix and match with both orgs having guys I would have killed to see fight each other.

 

[Lysander]

Pride had better LHWs.

Wand
Shogun
Arona
Rampage
Lil Nog
Overeem
Vitor
Chuck at times
Hendo

UFC had:
Chuck
Randy
Tito
Vitor
Babalu

Thats about it. Not really close in my opinion.

UFC definitely had the LHWs.

Vitor > Wand
Tito > Wand
Chuck > Wand
Chuck > Overeem
Forrest > Shogun
Forrest > Rampage

Rampage > Chuck

Domination by the UFC LHWs. Couture would have beat most of the Pride guys at the time too.

 

[m0353]

I'd say there were times when the UFC's LHW division looked stronger than the Pride's MW division, and vice versa. However, I do think that generally Pride's HW division was stronger than UFC's HW division (or at least just had more top guys at times)

 

[wilKO]

You have to add Forrest and Rashad to the UFC list as they were active during those years.

edit: given how you've constructed you list you should add Rich Franklin and Wanderlei Silva too. You could even add Michael Bisping and Chael Sonnen if you were inclined.

Ok. Add all of them. None of them were top contenders when Pride was around. Forrest became big after Pride when he fought SHogun and Rashad became big off Chuck and Forrest.

 

[THECYNDlCATE]

What's that you say?

Hell, we can even throw this one in as it was also in a cage under the zuffa umbrella.

And dude I already know your straw man counter argument so you can save it. I'm not claiming the that UFC fighters were superior - rather that Pride fighters weren't the dominant machines that their huggers claimed would walk through every one of the UFC's divisions like a stroll on the beach. You can try to deny that point but you'll be an idiot for doing so.

I love how you claim to know my counter argument, without saying exactly what it would be, so that later on you can pretend that anything I type, is what you were talking about.

It's funny how you bring up "straw man", while in the middle of making a logical fallacy yourself.

Fail.

They held titles and dominated over the UFC fighters from the same generation(who no longer fight). They all got titles and that means they were the BEST IN THE UFC during that time, in that weight-class.

So please,.. keep trying.

 

[THECYNDlCATE]

-edit- I see Zulu's Army beat me to it.
This is a bit off topic, but when people say Anderson Silva was a Pride fighter does that mean Dan Henderson is really a UFC fighter because he had 2 fights in the UFC before he went to Pride?

I'm fine with that.

Henderson won his 2 fights in the UFC, then suffered his first loses in Pride.

The only time he has lost in the UFC, is to Pride fighters.

Dan is a legit fighter, who very well might have been in the top 3 in the world at the time of Pride. He is an anomaly, but a damn good one who has earned everything he has accomplished.

 

[MMApick**]

Having seen Fedors troubles with Arona and with Mark Coleman in their first encounter as well as having observed his butterskin tear open at every glancing blow, it wasn't even a small stretch to think that this gigantic, surprisingly-fast-for-his-size grappler to whom Fedor gives up 50 pounds would be like kryptonite. I'm surprised it wasn't universally understood to be a horrible match-up for Fedor.

Choi is more dangerous than Bigfoot. He almost killed Fedor too...if Choi had any armbar defense, he would have won that fight.

Fedor finds ways to win despite being nearly killed...if the refs/doctors let him. To say for certain that the Bigfoot/Hendo fights wouldn't have went the other way had they been allowed to continue is foolish.

 

[wilKO]

UFC definitely had the LHWs.

Vitor > Wand
Tito > Wand
Chuck > Wand
Chuck > Overeem
Forrest > Shogun
Forrest > Rampage

Rampage > Chuck

Domination by the UFC LHWs. Couture would have beat most of the Pride guys at the time too.

Rampage > Chuck (twice)
Shogun > Chuck
Shogun > Forrest (they're 1-1)
Lil Nog > Tito
Overeem > Vitor (twice)

This is all stupid. Its not even debatable Pride had better LHWs. UFC had 3 top heavy LHWs and a shallow pool after that. Pride had strength in depth.

 

[facedancer]

in 05, it was Pride, no contest.