UFC All-Time greats & steroids

[MacGregor]

Where was Bones in relation to his career compared to Anderson when caught on peds. I can at least suspend disbelief with Spider.

 

[Brolypr]

There is such a thing as evolution. If it wasnt tested back in the days then its fair game and past fighters shouldnt be penalized for it. But today it is, and say all you want that means tham some people follow the rules and some dont. by definition that is cheating.

and please. the "steroids dont give you skiills" argument is just a stupid and short sighted one. Yes, steroids dont show you how to kick or punch or grapple, that being said there is such a thing as physiology. Otherwise all the trainers and coaches would be ufc champs. steroids help with strength, stamina, recovery, explosiveness, esencially all physiological factors. So yeah..kind of a big deal

 

[mkt]

Why does it seem this is a big issue in the UFC?

Is Anderson still the UFC MW goat? Or does Dan Henderson get the title even though he had a TRT pass? Or does that mean someone else is? Frank Shamrock?

Is Tim Sylvia the UFC HW goat?

Is Josh Barnett erased from mma history?

Is Cormier the best?

Even a guy like Royce, is his legacy removed? Are Coleman, and Kerr the greatest early UFC competitors?

Should Ken Shamrock have a victory over Royce?

Also is there a difference between taking a bunch of TRT vs other stuff?

Is Couture still a UFC hall of famer? Is he still the natural?

If people are riled up over a positive test or two, then are they outraged if Pride had no testing?

None of that counts. We're only supposed to be outraged at Lesnar, Chael and Vitor.

 

[norsuu]

all are on drugs, usada is a cancer for mma and others sports

 

[thobra]

Drugs changes nothing.
1. Fedor
2. Anderson
3. Hendo
4. GSP/Jones

 

[MCS]

Fight sports are more about skill and the will to win than being faster/stronger.

Take Wanderlei, for example. He started bare knuckle fighting as a teenager and fought open weight several times. Runs from a test, so now the reasoning is "he was scared to fight without them" or "he was never any good without them", when he was the best for 5 years straight in a field where it was allowed for everyone, and before that took on anyone in underground fights.

The best beat the best whether they or their opponents are on gear or not. All past legends have fought and beat fighters who got busted.

 

[SeattleFightFan]

early UFC was great. early Vitor was awesome. Pride was awesome. and the USADA era is awesome.

so the answer, TS, is simple. don't compare fighters across eras. the problem you outline is only a problem in P4P & GOAT conversations.

which are idiotic in the first place. seriously. watch this video and ask yourself, which one of these dorks are you? because is there really a difference between asking who'd win (Mighty Mouse or Superman) and who would win if they were the same weight under the same rule set (Fedor v DJ)?



TLDR: if you debate P4P, GOAT or P4P GOAT, you are a doofus.

Why does it seem this is a big issue in the UFC?

Is Anderson still the UFC MW goat? Or does Dan Henderson get the title even though he had a TRT pass? Or does that mean someone else is? Frank Shamrock?

Is Tim Sylvia the UFC HW goat?

Is Josh Barnett erased from mma history?

Is Cormier the best?

Even a guy like Royce, is his legacy removed? Are Coleman, and Kerr the greatest early UFC competitors?

Should Ken Shamrock have a victory over Royce?

Also is there a difference between taking a bunch of TRT vs other stuff?

Is Couture still a UFC hall of famer? Is he still the natural?

If people are riled up over a positive test or two, then are they outraged if Pride had no testing?

 

[Avin1973]

all are on drugs, usada is a cancer for mma and others sports

In my unpopular opinion here MMA should not test. Olympic sports, on the other, should test as harder they can.

 

[josh345]

It should be NFL style testing.

 

[TeTe]

Because I watch for entertainment purposes, I couldn't give two shits if they are on PEDs.. same with other sports.

However, If I was a professional athlete, including an MMA fighter, I'd be pretty pissed if I was clean and half the guys I was fighting weren't given the rules.

 

[Greco_Wiz]

Pure cope in this thread.

Everyone has had a favorite fighter fail a test, so they cope by resorting to the “everyone does it” argument. Laughable really.

Is PED abuse widespread? Depends on how you define widespread. There’s absolutely no evidence that even a majority of fighters take PEDs, let alone nearly all of them.

A joke? It was the biggest and grandest MMA promotion in the world for 10 years.

Fixed fights? Which fights were fixed besides Takada/Coleman and Takada/Otsuka? Those were two extremely insignificant fights involving pro wrestlers. No important fight was ever fixed.

UFC has had fixed fights like Taktarov/Macias. Should we call the UFC a joke?

A single fixed fight set up by the organization puts its entire reputation in jeopardy. Numerous reputable fighters from Rampage to Bas have said Pride fixed fights.

And the UFC didn’t fix Tartarov/Marcias idiot. There were concerns the FIGHTERS decided backstage to throw it because they had the same manager. Nothing to do with the UFC trying to fix a fight.

Get over it. Pride was a joke. Fixed fights and no drug testing = joke

 

[datfnguy]

They are all on steroids or some kind of performance enhancer. What is the reason for banning and testing for these things? To create fairness right? To give parity to competitors?

You think it's a fair fucking sport to begin with? Hell no, DC has had to fight giants all his career who were physically much more gifted - thats not fair. Mighty Midget fighting at BW was that far?? No, but no one gave two shits. ALL OF SPORT IS INHERENTLY UNFAIR. Was anything in PRIDE fair? Was Hunt vs TK fair?

Fuck fairness, let em all juice.

Jon is still my overall GOAT and dam straight Anderson is the MW GOAT.



This is a great fucking point, because PRIDE had no testing, they magically had no people doping right? Fuck no. But do we shit on Cro Cop or Fedor for PEDs? No of course not.

Steroids don't turn you into a fucking superhero people, the vast majority of you fuckwits have used steroids, TRT or HGH. You still have to put in the work to get stronger and you still need to put in tremendous time to develop those skills.

Fuck off USADA.

@paynebringer Had to show you this.

Mic drop statement of week.


100s on every single point. I wish I could like this more than once.

 

[SeattleFightFan]

Get over it. Pride was a joke. Fixed fights and no drug testing = joke

it IS funny how Pride fans watched both Pride and UFC - because they were MMA fans first and foremost - and UFC-centric fans only watched UFC.

that tells you something, if you're open minded enough to learn the lesson it's teaching.

Pride was awesome in real time. you probably just missed it, and the DVD's absolutely do not capture it. for your sake, i'm sorry you missed it.

 

[Typrune Goatley]

Pure cope in this thread.

Everyone has had a favorite fighter fail a test, so they cope by resorting to the “everyone does it” argument. Laughable really.

Is PED abuse widespread? Depends on how you define widespread. There’s absolutely no evidence that even a majority of fighters take PEDs, let alone nearly all of them.


A single fixed fight set up by the organization puts its entire reputation in jeopardy. Numerous reputable fighters from Rampage to Bas have said Pride fixed fights.

And the UFC didn’t fix Tartarov/Marcias idiot. There were concerns the FIGHTERS decided backstage to throw it because they had the same manager. Nothing to do with the UFC trying to fix a fight.

Get over it. Pride was a joke. Fixed fights and no drug testing = joke

That is only 2 fights that were confirmed to be fixed. Rampage had said the Yakuza offered him money to throw a fight but he turned it down. What did Bas say? Never heard that.

You can call it a joke all you want. It was the biggest and best MMA organization while it was alive. It had the majority of the world's best fighters. It paid the best.

Are you saying it was a joke and/or fixed when Rampage was kneed in the head by Wand 19 times? Or how about the rematch when Rampage's unconscious body was left hanging on the ropes blood dripping? Was that fixed when Wand stomped Kondo out? Were those some great actors that allowed Cro Cop to kick them in the head? Was Fedor's GNP on Nog all special effects?

GTFO with this "joke" bullshit. You clearly did not watch PRIDE while it was alive. How dare you call that a joke when people shed their blood and risked their lives to put on those events

 

[savemgs]

That's why the hate for Jones on this board blows my mind. Seems like everyone's excused from using except for Jon...

Because he's a disappointment. He was supposed to be the Muhammad Ali of MMA.
I never believed that myself but a lot of people made those comparisons when he first won the title.

 

[skylolow]

I think its safe to say that a large majority of fighters through the years have used some type of PED and I'm not talking just roid family of PED's.

 

[Paynebringer]

@paynebringer Had to show you this.

Mic drop statement of week.


100s on every single point. I wish I could like this more than once.

Good find, my speaks truth in full agreement...

 

[jeff7b9]

They are all on steroids, or were at some point.

 

[The Big Babou]

These are my questionable fighters list who *probably* used steroid:

Alistair Overeem
Kevin Randleman
Vitor Belfort
Ken Shamrock
Thiago Alves

Probably? More likely "juiced to the gills".

Things are gonna get really interesting once USADA starts retesting old blood samples... that will be the true test of a fighter's legacy.