UFC 209 - Twood vs Wonderboy II - Vegas (part 2)

[plekz]

tony is way to over aggressive, which is why he leave such openings as he does. he's played with fire multiple times in his last few fights, and been resiliant enough to survive. but i think people are really underestimating khabib's psyche here, that dude is _ice cold_ you should listen to the mics from cageside from the michael johnson fight, he's just holding him in place, and just wailing on him, just calmly constantly talking to him.

i agree there's value on fergusons line, because of khabib's striking still being a bit robotic, but not to a point where i would go 5+ units deep or anything, ''safest'' bet on this fight is probably on the over, as i think it goes to the cards most of the time.

 

[LEMONZEST]

Is there a betting kiosk at the tmobile arena where you can place bets or can you only do it at a casino??

c'mon niqqa if your in Vegas figure it out.... lol that town is full of sportsbooks.

PS. just kidding. I am just jealous that you are gonna be there.

PPS. check for the Tmobile betting app (not sure if it works for mma)

 

[minowasmullet]

c'mon niqqa if your in Vegas figure it out.... lol that town is full of sportsbooks.

PS. just kidding. I am just jealous that you are gonna be there.

PPS. check for the Tmobile betting app (not sure if it works for mma)

Thanks man I know there will be places all over im just lazy wanted to do it at the arena wasnt sure if that was a thing in America

 

[NinjaCat456]

Tony hyped lol

03:13 "I'm not a cry-baby baby!" Lol.

I really want to bet him big here but something's holding me back. He isn't the smartest guy, it's not beyond him to do something dumb. Khabib is just a stud as well, not the kind of guy I typically like betting against. Reminds me a bit of the last time Khabib fought where pretty much the whole forum was desperate to fade him only really because of the price.

 

[Timurd123]

Looks like the the majority here is on Tony, am I the only one big on Khabib ?

 

[AffectEffect]

03:13 "I'm not a cry-baby baby!" Lol.

I really want to bet him big here but something's holding me back. He isn't the smartest guy, it's not beyond him to do something dumb. Khabib is just a stud as well, not the kind of guy I typically like betting against. Reminds me a bit of the last time Khabib fought where pretty much the whole forum was desperate to fade him only really because of the price.

I wonder if Tony can keep a gameplan together if khabib is able to take him down early, he's so dumb. I was cringing hard during the countdown:

"I have 9 wins in row" looks into the camera with sincerity "what's better than that??" How about 24 wins in a row dumbass.

And yes the reactions this time are near identical to how the forum reacted to MJ vs khabib, but this time it's ferg so it makes more sense.

 

[mkess101]

I wonder if Tony can keep a gameplan together if khabib is able to take him down early, he's so dumb. I was cringing hard during the countdown:

"I have 9 wins in row" looks into the camera with sincerity "what's better than that??" How about 24 wins in a row dumbass.

And yes the reactions this time are near identical to how the forum reacted to MJ vs khabib, but this time it's ferg so it makes more sense.

I'm assuming you mean since Ferg isn't a helpless turtle off his back, and has shown consistent improvement over the last 2-3 years?

Also, I still think MJ was too cautious after hurting Khabib in rd 1. I'm not saying Khabib was out of his feet or that MJ was definitely GONNA stop him, but you gotta pour it on in that spot and at least see just how wobbly Khabib's legs are.

 

[KeystoneKannon]

Looks like the the majority here is on Tony, am I the only one big on Khabib ?

I like Khabib a lot here. I've laid out the reasons in the previous thread. I think this is going to be the most impressive Khabib yet and we are going to look back at this fight and be surprised so many people thought it would be close.

 

[Joseph Budden]

Wooooo guarantee Khabitch can't break dance. Confidence increase the new John Wick

 

[mkess101]

Big speed/agility edge for Ferg imo. Khabib's gameplan isn't about speed anyway but if he goes stretches without securing a TD and is forced to stand I think he's in trouble.



WTF Joe B beats me to it by a minute??? ^^^^^^^

 

[KeystoneKannon]

Big speed/agility edge for Ferg imo. Khabib's gameplan isn't about speed anyway but if he goes stretches without securing a TD and is forced to stand I think he's in trouble.



WTF Joe B beats me to it by a minute??? ^^^^^^^

Do you listen to heavy hands? Dr. Patrick Wyman disagrees with you about the speed/ quickness advantage.

 

[quincy k]

Wooooo guarantee Khabitch can't break dance. Confidence increase the new John Wick

i remember cory spinks doing some break dancing shit before his rematch with zab and then proceeded to get ktfo



its good that tonys confident but overly-confident might not be a good idea agaisnt an elite fighter like khabib

 

[mkess101]

Do you listen to heavy hands? Dr. Patrick Wyman disagrees with you about the speed/ quickness advantage.

Do not. I just go by what I see. Khabib has great fast twitch from what I see in his legs the way he drives through his TD's (even though he tends to chain wrestle more than relying on power doubles anyway). But with hands and overall movment Ferg just looks way quicker and more fluid. I've been watching so much tape over the last few weeks of both of these guys my eyes are glazed over. I think some of the perceived speed edge for Ferg may be how stiff and robotic Khabib looks in his standup. That's not specifically speed so I could be geting a little bit of a skewed perspective due to that. But it just doesn't even look all that close to me vs common opponents.

 

[Rebel_LioN]

Thanks man I know there will be places all over im just lazy wanted to do it at the arena wasnt sure if that was a thing in America

No there isn't a kiosk for that. I just took a quick flight here right now actually and I've checked a couple books and right now any place with William Hill is offering the best juice/odds.

 

[KeystoneKannon]

Do not. I just go by what I see. Khabib has great fast twitch from what I see in his legs the way he drives through his TD's (even though he tends to chain wrestle more than relying on power doubles anyway). But with hands and overall movment Ferg just looks way quicker and more fluid. I've been watching so much tape over the last few weeks of both of these guys my eyes are glazed over. I think some of the perceived speed edge for Ferg may be how stiff and robotic Khabib looks in his standup. That's not specifically speed so I could be geting a little bit of a skewed perspective due to that. But it just doesn't even look all that close to me vs common opponents.

You should listen to their breakdown of the fight. Its the best MMA analysis out there and its pretty entertaining.

 

[minowasmullet]

No there isn't a kiosk for that. I just took a quick flight here right now actually and I've checked a couple books and right now any place with William Hill is offering the best juice/odds.

Thanks mate

 

[mkess101]

Another point I want to bring up regarding Ferg's "recklessness" and "over aggressive" style. I've seen a lot of people (a few itt, and some in other places) pointing out how Ferg is too wild and gets tagged early in fights because of it. I watched the 3 recent fights where I thought this applied most to see what I could take away from it. I focused on Ferg's early defense and what was going on in the first rounds of those fights. It was RDA, Vannetta, and Barboza. In all of those fights Ferg got hit in the first round to varying degrees. And there was one thing I found in common in those 3 fights:

In most cases where Ferg is getting hit, he's landing his own shots too. It's not always as hard a shot as he takes and sometimes it seems like he'd be better off slipping the shot and resetting. But it may just be there's a method to this madness. I think he has unshakeable confidence in his chin and cardio. I forcing the war of attrition early in the fight (even if it means possibly getting the worst of some exchanges) is a way to begin breaking his opponents. He doesn't just believe his cardio and output will hold up, he KNOWS it will. He knows he can sustain what he's doing and even up the pace, and that his opponents will wilt. It was evident with Barboza as he slowed significantly after looking good in early exchanges. It was obvious as Vannetta gassed in rd 2 after badly rocking Ferg in rd 1 but also eating a shit ton of REALLY hard jabs. And it was evident in Mexico City where RDA just crumbled under Ferg's pressure about 13 minutes into the fight after having some early success.

Obviously the fight with Khabib is different as the style is completely unlike what those other guys bring. But even if he has to carry Khabib's weight for stretches and work off his back, I don't see Ferg slowing down a bit.

 

[plekz]

but if he goes stretches without

so long he can maul ferguson against the fence he'll do just fine most likely, i really don't think ferguson is going to have much success if he winds up playing clinch game with khabib, it's really only in open space khabib has to mind his p's and q's. i also think you and multiple others are disregarding how freakishly strong khabib is in those positions, and how developed his sense for posture on the ground is. you need space to work '10th planet' khabib is not a fighter that gives you space, he suffucates people until they can't take it anymore and essentially give up.

Another point

who are you trying to convince exactly? if that's actually accurate, then fergusons whole ''style'' & ''mindset'' is essentially a mistake waiting to happen. meaning it's just a matter of time before his opponents capitalize on his 'stupidity' and make him pay for it.

and this is the guy you are trying to make a case for why it makes sense to throw money at him? REALLY!?

he illegally upkicked barboza on the ground before winning that fight, and he scratched rda's cornea

so what happens when he has a fight where he can't get away with that type of stuff?

he was BADLY hurt against barboza, and he was BADLY hurt by vanatta, but he somehow ''knew'' he can take that type of punishment?......

 

[KeystoneKannon]

Another point I want to bring up regarding Ferg's "recklessness" and "over aggressive" style. I've seen a lot of people (a few itt, and some in other places) pointing out how Ferg is too wild and gets tagged early in fights because of it. I watched the 3 recent fights where I thought this applied most to see what I could take away from it. I focused on Ferg's early defense and what was going on in the first rounds of those fights. It was RDA, Vannetta, and Barboza. In all of those fights Ferg got hit in the first round to varying degrees. And there was one thing I found in common in those 3 fights:

In most cases where Ferg is getting hit, he's landing his own shots too. It's not always as hard a shot as he takes and sometimes it seems like he'd be better off slipping the shot and resetting. But it may just be there's a method to this madness. I think he has unshakeable confidence in his chin and cardio. I forcing the war of attrition early in the fight (even if it means possibly getting the worst of some exchanges) is a way to begin breaking his opponents. He doesn't just believe his cardio and output will hold up, he KNOWS it will. He knows he can sustain what he's doing and even up the pace, and that his opponents will wilt. It was evident with Barboza as he slowed significantly after looking good in early exchanges. It was obvious as Vannetta gassed in rd 2 after badly rocking Ferg in rd 1 but also eating a shit ton of REALLY hard jabs. And it was evident in Mexico City where RDA just crumbled under Ferg's pressure about 13 minutes into the fight after having some early success.

Obviously the fight with Khabib is different as the style is completely unlike what those other guys bring. But even if he has to carry Khabib's weight for stretches and work off his back, I don't see Ferg slowing down a bit.

I think it is that same unshakeable confidence that will be his downfall. It's that confidence that is going to make him roll for leg locks, pull guard, be content to fight on the ground. It's hard for me to imagine a guy like Tony admitting that he cannot compete on the ground. I don't think he has the mental makeup to admit where he doesn't have an advantage. I am confident he thinks Khabib can't dominate him on the ground because he has a slick guard game. The over confidence is what makes me reckless, it's what makes him overly aggressive, it is what leads to him willingly putting himself in bad positions chasing low percentage subs, and it is what will ultimately be his downfall against a fighter who knows exactly where he needs to be to win the fight.

 

[AffectEffect]

I'm assuming you mean since Ferg isn't a helpless turtle off his back, and has shown consistent improvement over the last 2-3 years?

Also, I still think MJ was too cautious after hurting Khabib in rd 1. I'm not saying Khabib was out of his feet or that MJ was definitely GONNA stop him, but you gotta pour it on in that spot and at least see just how wobbly Khabib's legs are.

Yes, obviously Tony is better than MJ on the ground. But I think it says something that this thread historically dismisses khabibs skills, I think before the MJ fight the logic was "he looked bad vs horcher for the first minute". Maybe some people just can't see what makes khabib so good because they can't understand it? Not pointing fingers, it's interesting how polarizing people's opinions of his fights are.

About MJ: It's just weird imho, to focus on one exchange in the MJ v khabib fight, instead of khabib's dominance. And then on the other hand to not mention how MJ beat Ferg, just feels like selective logic to me.