Tyron Woodley vs Wonderboy part II - Who has the most adjustments to make?

[Threetrees]

I wouldn't expect anything rational from you based on your avatar

Woodley didn't take the rounds off. He just does terribly against the cage and when pressured

He puts himself against the cage

watch literally any of his fights
no one is pressuring him, not really - except Rory.
He literally walks backwards, puts his back foot against the cage and hangs out there. Even when he's winning while walking forward, it's a weird tactic but he does it every fight

Like even in the Kos fight, he is hitting Kos moving forward, is actually backing Kos up towards the fence and then at some point he chooses to circle himself to the fence where he lands the final counter. He does it every fight.

He gave away the entire Jake Shields fight doing the same thing too.

 

[HereToSlay]

Well I just changed it to Tyron if you must know.

It was previously Dominick Cruz, then Yoel Romero and then Nick Diaz a punch of times, pretty sure 2Pac was in there also.



Tyron clearly took Round 5 off due to fatigue. Round 2 and 3 he arguably won, if you look at Rounds 1 and 4 when he wanted to up his activity he did so and he won them by a landslide.

Wonderboy was terrible in this fight, admit it.

If he was terrible Tyron would have won

If he was terrible he wouldn't have won 3 rounds

In other words he gassed. It's called taking a round off only when you do it deliberately to conserve energy. Not when you're tired and can't fight anymore

 

[TheRuthlessOne]

He puts himself against the cage

watch literally any of his fights
no one is pressuring him, not really - except Rory.
He literally walks backwards, puts his back foot against the cage and hangs out there. Even when he's winning while walking forward, it's a weird tactic but he does it every fight

Like even in the Kos fight, he is hitting Kos moving forward, is actually backing Kos up towards the fence and then at some point he chooses to circle himself to the fence where he lands the final counter. He does it every fight.

He gave away the entire Jake Shields fight doing the same thing too.

Wonderboy is the type of fighter who feasts on guys standing still

Woodley needs to be the aggressor. Clinch up with him. Push him against the cage and go for takedowns. Should also look for more leg kicks cause he has really strong leg kicks

If he does all that I think its an easy win

 

[Jimmy jump]

Even though it was a draw I think Woodley showed he was by far the better fighter. Wonderboy looked decent as always but he got battered in the rounds that Woodley dominated. Woodley should finish him this time I think as he has shown that he is comfortable with the puzzle that Wonderboy brings.

 

[The Natural Born Runner]

Yeah it "worked", but for two things. For one it gives the illusion that Wonderboy is controlling space and distance if you don't know what Woodley's intent is, for two it gives away long stretches of the fight if Tyron is inactive. He essentially backed himself into a corner for the right reasons, but it's not the "best" game to play, it's a strange tactic. I think Tyron had the right idea, but you can do the same things out in space with smart footwork. Like I alluded to in a previous post, Garbrandt had largely the same strategy. That's to back up/stand still and let the more active guy come towards him. But putting yourself against the fence? It's not a strategy built to win rounds, even if it works - that's just my opinion though.
It's an interesting idea on a lot of levels, because it also limits Wonderboy's offensive options though, so you're right in a sense I think, so I'm not totally disagreeing.

And yeah I thought rounds 1-4 were all close. Kenny Florian was saying that he gave round 2 to Woodley and Anik was saying he gave round 3 to Woodley at one point.

I totally agree with you, in the sense that the judges are not going to see his strategy as "offensive" in those periods, but the reality is he barely got hit in that fight, even as a stationary target against the cage.

Hate quoting FightMetric numbers but; Wonderboy landed 18 strikes in the first 15 minutes! 18 MUFUGGING STIRKES!

To me, that means Tyron's tactics worked.

I don't care if you're a judge who has a boner for "Octagon Control" whatever that even means. You saw a man land 18 strikes in 3 Rounds and you gave him 2 of those rounds, what sort of judge are you?

The first round Tyron sat in top position whilst doing damage for an extended period of the round, and Wonderboy landed 1 strike. 1 MUFUGGING STRIKE! How is that not a 10-8!? When Tyron landed 45?

Wonderboy landed 7 strikes in Round 2, only 7 strikes!?!?!?!?

Okay Woodley landed barely anything in Round 3, only 8 strikes, but Stephen landed only 10! and I'm pretty sure Woodley landed the harder shots by far.

Only in Round 4 where Tyron opened up and had a proper fight with Stephen, where he somewhat deviated from his gameplan, did Stephen start to land higher numbers. Of course as I aforementioned, Round 5 was Stephen's best round, as Tyron was tired and Stephen was desperate at that stage.

Thompson landed 60 strikes in 25 minutes, that's essentially 2 strikes per minute. This guy is the striker, the distance manager, the guy who doesn't get hit supposedly, yet Tyron looked more like Wonderboy than Wonderboy that night.

I think the judges need to adapt their way of viewing who is winning. You cannot be winning if you're not landing.

 

[The Natural Born Runner]

If he was terrible Tyron would have won

If he was terrible he wouldn't have won 3 rounds

In other words he gassed. It's called taking a round off only when you do it deliberately to conserve energy. Not when you're tired and can't fight anymore

Sorry, I forgot the part where Tyron decked him and had him unconscious approximately 18 minutes into a fight, yeah he was really gassing.

How about you get into a cage and you throw down with someone for 18 minutes and you pour everything you have to try and finish a guy. See if you won't be tired bro.

Tyron should have won, we all know this. I call the performance terrible because he did nothing, he really didn't, he didn't land anything where I was worried and he is the expert/elite striker here.

Dominated on the ground, destroyed by the power, outlanded in terms of the numbers by over 50 strikes, hit Tyron less.

Don't see how he won personally.

 

[Threetrees]

Wonderboy is the type of fighter who feasts on guys standing still

Woodley needs to be the aggressor. Clinch up with him. Push him against the cage and go for takedowns. Should also look for more leg kicks cause he has really strong leg kicks

If he does all that I think its an easy win

Yeah I actually ALSO agree with you. That's what makes this fight really interesting because there's more than one way Tyron can win it and I think there are good arguments for a number of tactics that he could use. This is how I felt about Shogun going into the second fight- I felt like he proved he was the better fighter the first time around, but still didn't think he'd win a rematch. Because, much like this one, I thought that if both guys fought the same the decision would favor the other guy barring a finish.

Super excited for this fight either way

 

[Otto!]

Felt like Thompson was gunshy in their first fight. He needs to throw more volume.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

I thought Tyron got the best of Wonderboy in the first fight, but he squandered his win with inactivity. So my first take would be that Wrboy has more to work on, while Tyron just needs to work on cardio and be a bit busier. That said, I also wonder if Tyron thinking he won the fight could lead to complacence while Wonderboy might be more motivated to make adjustments based on the greater damage he clearly took in the fight.

 

[Guru28]

Instant rematches are generally stupid in MMA, I don't think this one is an exception. But the first fight was great enough that I'm all in.

Which guy has the most to change to convincingly win a rematch?
I think Tyron won the last fight 1,3,4 and I didn't see my scorecard as being controversial. I see arguments for others, but after rewatching a couple times I still think thats the best way to call it

Even still, I favor Wonderboy in a rematch. I think he can fight almost exactly like he did last time and pull out a decision - and I also think the style matchup favors Wonderboy pretty much in all the same ways as last time, even if he doesn't land the cleaner harder shots he'll still get points with the judges for sheer volume and activity.

With Tyron I think he has to adjust a lot of his gameplan, because Wonderboy is still a match up nightmare on the feet. That or he has to commit to the takedown game, which I think he'd cruise to a decision win with if he did.

What say you?

Both needs to step up as it was a majority draw.

Woodley - He needs more of his bombs. He need to take Wonderboy to the ground game more as we saw in round 1. Woodley sort of gassed out in 5th round as he wasn't doing much.

Wonderboy - He needs to seriously avoid bombs and takedown. If he can do these 2 things and it isn't easy against Woodley then he will win.

 

[Threetrees]

I thought Tyron got the best of Wonderboy in the first fight, but he squandered his win with inactivity. So my first take would be that Wrboy has more to work on, while Tyron just needs to work on cardio and be a bit busier. That said, I also wonder if Tyron thinking he won the fight could lead to complacence while Wonderboy might be more motivated to make adjustments based on the greater damage he clearly took in the fight.

The last point was a thought I had as well. Until I saw Tyron opened as a decent underdog

 

[Iroh]

Woodley has more changes to make, but those changes aren't major. He just needs to wrestle more and keep WB guessing more to land some big shots. In which case I favor Woodley to do much better than the first time especially because he now knows better what to expect, than the first time and WB will probably just do the same, more or less.

 

[Elmonstro1]

The changes woodley would need to make is engage in his wrestling when he has wonderboy against the fence not the center of ring where wonderboy is free to counter in any angle.

The changes wounderboy would need to make is not over commit to strikes and to not circle into woodleys right side where we got hurt multiple times

 

[Zappa]

Both need to adjust based on the previous experience, but I don't think Tyron will and he will pay for that . By the way, if it wasn't for that shit kick in the first Thompson probably would have won the fight.

 

[MCS]

For Woodley it should be simple: use his wrestling early and often. It throws off timing-based strikers and makes them hesitant to engage. Woodley can also do damage on the ground like he already showed.

WB had the right distance for most of the fight, making Tyron go backwards and from there the right hand is his only big weapon. Throw long kicks like teeps and side kicks to body/legs to maintain distance and open up with hands once Woodley's close to the fence. Focus on backstep practice both to nullify Woodley's wrestling and his power punch charge, reset and take control of the center again for a relatively easy decision win.

 

[datfnguy]

Instant rematches are generally stupid in MMA, I don't think this one is an exception. But the first fight was great enough that I'm all in.

Which guy has the most to change to convincingly win a rematch?
I think Tyron won the last fight 1,3,4 and I didn't see my scorecard as being controversial. I see arguments for others, but after rewatching a couple times I still think thats the best way to call it

Even still, I favor Wonderboy in a rematch. I think he can fight almost exactly like he did last time and pull out a decision - and I also think the style matchup favors Wonderboy pretty much in all the same ways as last time, even if he doesn't land the cleaner harder shots he'll still get points with the judges for sheer volume and activity.

With Tyron I think he has to adjust a lot of his gameplan, because Wonderboy is still a match up nightmare on the feet. That or he has to commit to the takedown game, which I think he'd cruise to a decision win with if he did.

What say you?

I think you are looking past the fact that Wonderbread fought his fight and Woodley got through it. Thompson wasn't able to use distance effectively to keep Tyron at bay and was getting hit way more than normal. Wonderbread was the only one ever to be in trouble during the fight as well. I think he has the most to change because his normal game plan got him hurt and only managed to get him a controversial draw.

 

[MCS]

He puts himself against the cage

watch literally any of his fights
no one is pressuring him, not really - except Rory.
He literally walks backwards, puts his back foot against the cage and hangs out there. Even when he's winning while walking forward, it's a weird tactic but he does it every fight

Like even in the Kos fight, he is hitting Kos moving forward, is actually backing Kos up towards the fence and then at some point he chooses to circle himself to the fence where he lands the final counter. He does it every fight.

He gave away the entire Jake Shields fight doing the same thing too.

I think that's old wrestling stiffness, which Hughes also had. Look at Tyron's hands and feet when he's going backwards towards the cage. Hands high on the side, open fists, feet sideways almost in a straight line. Basically no striking base, but more what you see from wrestlers on the outside.

But he has that crazy spring in his step that lets him explode with those huge power strikes even when his feet are all wrong. But when his opponent is active he can't find openings to explode and he's basically a poor wrestleboxer, like in the Shields fight.

Woodley won't be a good fighter when his athleticism goes. Too much of his game is based on it, much like with Rashad and Lombard.

 

[Zerfleischer]

Tyron. Needs to adjust from being so racist.

why...? it would make him less authentic! i personally would like to see him go all in!

 

[MysticGOD]

I will actually do a breakdown in the future but we can start talking about it right now Also, finally a good thread to actually talk about MMA, it`s a rare thing these days on sherdog.

The first fight was a big chess game. I had it exacly like the judges, a draw, with Stephen Thompson taking 3 rounds but with the 4th being a 10-8 for Woodley who almost finished him.

I think we learned a few things with the first time, we saw both guys having a tremendous amont of respect for each other, there was moments where Wonderboy had Woodley backin up against the fence (as usual) and Woodley always gets very hesitant, static and always loses that called "window" to escape-with movement- and Stephen could have capitalized more on that but he was too afraid of Woodley`s power and rightfully so as we saw in that 4th round.

Woodley was also very hesitant in his offensive, probably because he knows that Wonderboy`s counter game is something out of the matrix.

We also learned that Wonderboy CANNOT make any mistakes, that was pretty much what cost him the fight, he was perfect standing all night...Until he reacted 1 second later and Woodley was able to land and he landed hard and almost finish the fight BUT, this is also something that can be a confident factor for Wonderboy because he knows now that he has a chin, he knows now that he CAN overcome adversity, that`s huge for a fighter, especially going into a rematch, we could and we will very well see a much more confident and relax Wonderboy on the feet and that will be a nightmare for Tyron to deal with it.

I think in terms of adjusting, Woodley has much more to do it but with the right game plan i think he could pull it off. First of all, that guy is a tank and he hits like a truck so there will always be the chance that he will land and finish that fight, he almost did it last time and he can very well do it in 25 minutes in there.

I think wrestling will not be much of a factor, Woodley took him down once in the first round and was because Wonderboy didn`t set up his kicks like usually does and wasn`t moving at all, he went for a leg kick when Woodley was in decent range and the speed was incredible, in 1 second he was down but it was something that Stephen knew he made wrong, adjusted in the fight and Woodley never again in that fight had the opportunity to take the fight to the ground, and i don`t think it will be something it will happen in the rematch either.

There is 2 things, one that Woodley needs to correct and other that he needs to implement.

-Like i talked in my breakdown for the first fight, he can`t back up against the fence in that stationary, hesitant way like that. He always does it and he always ends up in dead end and usually gets worked easily. He was against Rory and until that punch landed, Wonderboy was also controlling him and doing just fine. It`s a big mistake that Woodley does all the time and he needs to correct it otherwise he is fucked.

-Leg kicks. That dude has one of the best leg kicks in the division, probably the strongest leg kicks. Wonderboy has that wide side karaté stance, that leaves the opening for leg kicks. Woodley landed ONE in the first fight and you could see in Wonderboy`s face, we went "Oh shit...", i don`t understand why he didn`t use more of those, it`s like he freezes in there and has no awareness of adjustements as the fight goes on. I think leg kicks is the key for him, no fear of getting taken down, if he gets a few in it`s all it takes to take away a bit of Wonderboy`s movement and from there with success it would probably open doors to him be able to get much more offensive going and land and even the wrestling.

This being said, i think the same Woodley will appear, i don`t think we will see nothing new. From Wonderboy, i think he will be doing his thing like the first fight, he should open up more when he has Woodley backing up and just control the distance like he was doing in the first.

Do you have a MMA blog?

 

[avengedsixfold]

Instant rematches are generally stupid in MMA, I don't think this one is an exception. But the first fight was great enough that I'm all in.

Which guy has the most to change to convincingly win a rematch?
I think Tyron won the last fight 1,3,4 and I didn't see my scorecard as being controversial. I see arguments for others, but after rewatching a couple times I still think thats the best way to call it

Even still, I favor Wonderboy in a rematch. I think he can fight almost exactly like he did last time and pull out a decision - and I also think the style matchup favors Wonderboy pretty much in all the same ways as last time, even if he doesn't land the cleaner harder shots he'll still get points with the judges for sheer volume and activity.

With Tyron I think he has to adjust a lot of his gameplan, because Wonderboy is still a match up nightmare on the feet. That or he has to commit to the takedown game, which I think he'd cruise to a decision win with if he did.

What say you?

I don't think he needs to make such adjustments, just go for strikes over chokes if Wonderboy is hurt and that should seal it. Rooting hard for Woodley here, bring on Maia!