Two DACA recipients arrested for involvement in human smuggling

[zebby23]

I see the trolls are out in full force today

 

[KantoTerror]

Calling people's wives losers.

 

[BjPenn2017]

I don't care what you believe, you're not very bright.

Lol coming from the biggest thread derailing shit poster in the war room it's shocking you haven't been banned yet I have never once seen you post a god damn thing of substance

 

[ultramanhyata]

Pelosi says these are "children" who were brought to the country by their parents, but most of them are adults and many came by themselves as teenagers.

So would you support amnesty for any immigrant who entered this country illegally while still under the age of 12?

 

[waiguoren]

So would you support amnesty for any immigrant who entered this country illegally while still under the age of 12?

Disclaimer: I do not represent the views of anyone but myself.

No. I oppose all amnesty. Sets an awful precedent. I oppose DACA on both constitutional and policy grounds and I oppose the Trump immigration plan on grounds of moral hazard.

 

[elfeliz]

if the vegas shooter didnt represent all white people for his actions why do these two daca recipients represent the other 800 thousand?

 

[ultramanhyata]

Disclaimer: I do not represent the views of anyone but myself.

No. I oppose all amnesty. Sets an awful precedent. I oppose DACA on both constitutional and policy grounds and I oppose the Trump immigration plan on grounds of moral hazard.

That's what I figured. So if you think even those brought over the border in baby strollers should be deported why do you feel the need to point out that some DACA recipients were not brought here as minors by their parents?

It just makes you look like you're not arguing in good faith.

 

[waiguoren]

if the vegas shooter didnt represent all white people for his actions why do these two daca recipients represent the other 800 thousand?

No one said they do.

This is a rebuttal to the people (Pelosi, Schumer, etc) who claim or imply that all the DACA recipients are upstanding citizens. People should know that the reality is more complicated.

 

[waiguoren]

That's what I figured. So if you think even those brought over the border in baby strollers should be deported why do you feel the need to point out that some DACA recipients were not brought here as minors by their parents?

It just makes you look like you're not arguing in good faith.

You're conflating two different strains of thought.

1) I don't think amnesty is a good idea, period.

2) I wish for people to see the truth in all matters, to the greatest extent possible.

Those arguing for legalizing DACA are claiming or implying that all DACA recipients are children, brought the the US by their parents. That's demonstrably false and should be exposed as such. If more people see the truth (2), then more people will oppose DACA and related legislation, thus serving my preference (1).

 

[Byron Carter]

if the vegas shooter didnt represent all white people for his actions why do these two daca recipients represent the other 800 thousand?

Vegas shooter is a pretty good representation of most liberal wackjobs. Too bad they're covering up his motives.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Those arguing for legalizing DACA are claiming or implying that all DACA recipients are children, brought the the US by their parents. That's demonstrably false and should be exposed as such. If more people see the truth (2), then more people will oppose DACA and related legislation, thus serving my preference (1).

No, anyone who supports DACA on the basis that it protects minors brought to the US by their parents/guardians would continue to support DACA for all individuals meeting those criteria, whether or not some percentage of that pool needed to be re-categorized.

Your argument is just an attempt to not appear as punitive and unfair as your true position requires.

Here's a question: Do you think the children in the California "house of horrors" Turpin family case should be punished along with their parents for the crimes their parents committed against them?

 

[waiguoren]

No, anyone who supports DACA on the basis that it protects minors brought to the US by their parents/guardians would continue to support DACA for all individuals meeting those criteria, whether or not some percentage of that pool needed to be re-categorized.

Yes, that is true and I did not dispute that. But DACA and Trump's plan cover many people who do not meet that criteria.

Your argument is just an attempt to not appear as punitive and unfair as your true position requires.

Not following you here. I oppose amnesty personally and I think more people would oppose DACA if they actually understood it.

Here's a question: Do you think the children in the California "house of horrors" Turpin family case should be punished along with their parents for the crimes their parents committed against them?

I think that's a poor analogy. In the Turpin case you have two parties (really 14, but you get the idea). Party A committed offenses against Party B. There are few if any externalities. Punishing the children would offer no benefits to anyone.

With amnesty for DACA recipients there are negative externalities associated with the future illegal immigration that will be encouraged by the amnesty. As an example, you'll recall that after Obama implemented DACA, thousands of minors from backward places such as El Salvador started showing up unaccompanied at the US-Mexico border. The US taxpayer ended up paying to house/feed those people. There's no way to know for sure, but my guess is those waves of people wouldn't have showed up if not for DACA. These amnesties and similar policies have real world consequences.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Yes, that is true and I did not dispute that. But DACA and Trump's plan cover many people who do not meet that criteria.



Not following you here. I oppose amnesty personally and I think more people would oppose DACA if they actually understood it.



I think that's a poor analogy. In the Turpin case you have two parties (really 14, but you get the idea). Party A committed offenses against Party B. There are few if any externalities. Punishing the children would offer no benefits to anyone.

With amnesty for DACA recipients there are negative externalities associated with the future illegal immigration that will be encouraged by the amnesty. As an example, you'll recall that after Obama implemented DACA, thousands of minors from backward places such as El Salvador started showing up unaccompanied at the US-Mexico border. The US taxpayer ended up paying to house/feed those people. There's no way to know for sure, but my guess is those waves of people wouldn't have showed up if not for DACA. These amnesties and similar policies have real world consequences.

Cliffs: I support holding children accountable for the sins of their parents. If the parents are from third-world countries.

 

[waiguoren]

Cliffs: I support holding children accountable for the sins of their parents. If the parents are from third-world countries.

That's pretty disingenuous. You can do better.

I wish there were a way to prevent those DACA adults from having to be sent back without encouraging more illegal immigration. I don't want to harm anyone, but people will get harmed either way.

I calculate the harm associated with sending them back to be fairly minimal. Almost all of them are Mexican adults. Almost all of them speak Spanish as a first language. We wouldn't be sending them back to Bhutan.

It's like saying you "support" killing people by making a choice in the Trolley Problem. Very disingenuous.

 

[ultramanhyata]

That's pretty disingenuous. You can do better.

I wish there were a way to prevent those DACA adults from having to be sent back without encouraging more illegal immigration. I don't want to harm anyone, but people will get harmed either way.

I calculate the harm associated with sending them back to be fairly minimal. Almost all of them are Mexican adults. Almost all of them speak Spanish as a first language. We wouldn't be sending them back to Bhutan.

It's like saying you "support" killing people by making a choice in the Trolley Problem. Very disingenuous.

First, you won't find anyone who identifies as "left" in the WR who is as opposed to illegal immigration as I am.

For example, I have little to no sympathy for these moms and dads who are being deported after decades in the US. They must take full responsibility for this outcome as well as for all the pain that is being inflicted on their loved ones who remain here.

But no civilized, ethical person in their right mind can endorse the deportation of human beings brought over the border, through no will or choice of their own, by parents, as minors.

You're off in ideological lala land. Thankfully you're part of a very small minority of sociopaths.

 

[Possum Jenkins]

Why is this newsworthy?

In order to be a DACA recipient, you have to be crime-free. Therefore, these two dudes are automatically kicked out of the program and ineligible for whatever benefits the program may hold in the future.

DACA remains unblemished.

 

[BjPenn2017]

Cliffs: I support holding children accountable for the sins of their parents. If the parents are from third-world countries.

Precisely most people have enough problems of their own no one wants to worry about 3rd world shitskins

 

[ultramanhyata]

Precisely most people have enough problems of their own no one wants to worry about 3rd world shitskins

Whereas some people uphold fundamental principles of justice that are not altered by class or skin color. The blind-fold. The scales. All that.

 

[BjPenn2017]

Whereas some people uphold fundamental principles of justice that are not altered by class or skin color. The blind-fold. The scales. All that.

Not my fault their parents are bad people and committed a crime send em back to their shithole

 

[BangersAndSmash]

How exactly would America help Mexico 'become less of a shit hole'? Also, America should worry about itself first, not other countries, as every country should, as everybody should.

There is plenty that America can do to help Mexico. Why should our military members be sent across the ocean to help foreign allies fight terrorists in the middle east, when they can go south of the border and do the same thing? The idea that America should worry about itself first is fine in theory, but the reality is putting up a giant wall and hiring triple the number of border guards isn't going to make Mexico disappear. It's always going to be right there under us, and as long as the drug trade is steady (hint hint, the war on drugs is a miserable failure, if "cracking down" hasn't worked in fifty years, there's no reason to believe it will ever work) the cartels will remain in power. I guarantee you if Mexico was a secure stable place, illegal immigration would drop down to nothing, and the border with Mexico would be as safe as the border with Canada.

Also the whole dreamers thing really shows that you can't give a single inch in politics. A couple of decades ago, both liberals and conservatives would have laughed at the proposal that illegal immigrants would be given legal status in America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control_Act_of_1986

Come on now. Know a little bit of history before you make a broad sweeping statement like that. The act above was passed by Regean and gave amnesty to an estimated 4 million immigrants.