International Turkey's Lonely Road to Isolation: The World Looks on as Erdogan Jockeys for a Third Decade in Power

Turkey's Erdogan warns Dutch will pay the price for blocking his ministers from holding rallies in the Netherlands
March 12, 2017

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President Erdogan: "We will teach them international diplomacy"

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has warned the Netherlands it will "pay the price" for harming ties after two of his ministers were barred.

The two ministers were blocked from addressing Turkish voters in Rotterdam on Saturday, with one of them escorted to the German border.

The Dutch government said such rallies would stoke tensions days before the Netherlands' general election.

Turkey's ties with several EU countries have become strained over the rallies.

The rallies aim to increase support among Turks living in Europe who are eligible to vote in a referendum on expanding Turkish presidential powers.

Fatma Betul Sayan Kaya, Turkey's family minister, had arrived in Rotterdam by road on Saturday, but was denied entry to the consulate and taken to the German border by Dutch police.

Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu tried to fly in but was refused entry.

'Capital of fascism'

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Protesters gathered outside the Turkish consulate in Rotterdam on Saturday night



Several EU countries have been drawn into the row over the rallies:
  • Mr Cavusoglu called the Netherlands the "capital of fascism" after he was refused entry
  • Mr Erdogan accused Germany of "Nazi practices" after similar rallies there were cancelled - words Chancellor Angela Merkel described as "unacceptable"
  • Denmark's Prime Minister Lars Lokke Rasmussen postponed a planned meeting with Turkey's prime minister, saying he was concerned that "democratic principles are under great pressure" in Turkey
  • Local French officials have allowed a Turkish rally in Metz, saying it does not pose a public order threat - while France's foreign ministry has urged Turkey to avoid provocations

Mr Erdogan accused countries in the West of "Islamophobia" and demanded international organisations impose sanctions on the Netherlands.

"I have said that I had thought that Nazism was over, but that I was wrong. Nazism is alive in the West," he said.

He thanked France for allowing Mr Cavusoglu to travel to Metz to address a rally.

The Netherlands' Prime Minister Mark Rutte has demanded Mr Erdogan apologise for likening the Dutch to "Nazi fascists".

"This country was bombed during the Second World War by Nazis. It's totally unacceptable to talk in this way."

Mr Erdogan's comments were "completely unacceptable", and the Netherlands would have to consider its response if Turkey continued on its current path, he added.

The Dutch government is facing a severe electoral challenge from the anti-Islam party of Geert Wilders in its election on Wednesday.

Reports say the owner of a venue in the Swedish capital, Stockholm, has also cancelled a pro-Erdogan rally on Sunday that was to have been attended by Turkey's agriculture minister.

Sweden's foreign ministry said it was not involved in the decision and that the event could take place elsewhere.

What is the row about?


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Turkey is holding a referendum on 16 April on whether to turn from a parliamentary to a presidential republic, more akin to the United States.

If successful, it would give sweeping new powers to the president, allowing him or her to appoint ministers, prepare the budget, choose the majority of senior judges and enact certain laws by decree.

What's more, the president alone would be able to announce a state of emergency and dismiss parliament.

There are 5.5 million Turks living outside the country, with 1.4 million eligible voters in Germany alone - and the Yes campaign is keen to get them on side.

So a number of rallies have been planned for countries with large numbers of eligible voters, including Germany, Austria and the Netherlands.

Why are countries trying to prevent the rallies?
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Many of the countries, including Germany, have cited security concerns as the official reason.

Austrian Foreign Minister Sebastian Kurz said Mr Erdogan was not welcome to hold rallies as this could increase friction and hinder integration.

Many European nations have also expressed deep disquiet about Turkey's response to the July coup attempt and the country's perceived slide towards authoritarianism under President Erdogan.

Germany in particular has been critical of the mass arrests and purges that followed - with nearly 100,000 civil servants removed from their posts.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39248646
 
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Turkey rallies row: Germany and Netherlands harden stance
March 12, 2017

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Several EU leaders have criticised Turkey, amid a growing row over the Turkish government's attempts to hold rallies in European countries.

President Recep Tayyip Erdogan accused Germany and the Netherlands of "Nazism" after officials blocked rallies there.

Dutch PM Mark Rutte called his comments "unacceptable", while Germany's foreign minister said he hoped Turkey would "return to its senses".

Denmark's leader has also postponed a planned meeting with Mr Erdogan.

Prime Minister Lars Lokke Rasmussen said he was concerned that "democratic principles are under great pressure" in Turkey.

He added that he had postponed the meeting because: "With the current Turkish attacks on Holland the meeting cannot be seen separated from that."

The rallies aim to encourage a large number of Turks living in Europe to vote yes in a referendum expanding the president's powers.

However, planned rallies in Germany, Austria and the Netherlands were blocked after officials cited security concerns or said the rallies could stoke tensions.

A gathering in France however went ahead after local officials said it did not pose a threat.

Ties between the Turkish and Dutch leaders became particularly strained at the weekend after two Turkish ministers were barred from addressing rallies in Rotterdam, with one of them escorted to the German border.

Mr Erdogan likened the Netherlands to "a banana republic", demanded international organisations impose sanctions on the Netherlands, and accused countries in the West of "Islamophobia".

"I have said that I had thought that Nazism was over, but I was wrong. Nazism is alive in the West," he added.

On Sunday, Mr Rutte demanded Mr Erdogan apologise for likening the Dutch to "Nazi fascists".

"This country was bombed during the Second World War by Nazis. It's totally unacceptable to talk in this way."

The Netherlands would have to consider its response if Turkey continued on its current path, he added.

Meanwhile, German ministers also appeared to harden their rhetoric against Turkey.

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Angela Merkel said it was "depressing" and "unacceptable" that Mr Erdogan likened the rally bans to "Nazi practices"

Despite Chancellor Angela Merkel saying her government was not opposed to Turkish ministers attending rallies in Germany, as long as they are "duly announced", her interior minister said he was opposed to Turkish political gatherings in Germany.

"A Turkish campaign has no business being here in Germany," Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere told local media.

Separately, Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble said Turkey had "destroyed the basis for further progress in co-operation".

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39251216
 
Fuck Erdogan, and him trying to organize Turkish rallies in the EU. Turkey isn't a part of Europe, European culture, or the EU. Peddle your benevolent dictator shtick somewhere else you petulant insecure child. And double extra special fuck you to anyone flying the star and crescent flag in Europe. Traitors.

Time to shore up the European, and especially the EU borders along the Balkan route, and flip him the bird. The Ottomans are acting up again.
 
Germany and Netherlands should revoke double nationality to Turks, simple solution.
 
Fuck Erdogan, and him trying to organize Turkish rallies in the EU. Turkey isn't a part of Europe, European culture, or the EU. Peddle your benevolent dictator shtick somewhere else you petulant insecure child. And double extra special fuck you to anyone flying the star and crescent flag in Europe. Traitors.

Time to shore up the European, and especially the EU borders along the Balkan route, and flip him the bird. The Ottomans are acting up again.
Seems rather reasonable to me given how many Turkish voters there are in the EU. I also find it reasonable that the countries involved might not want such rallies on their soil at this time given what's going on not only in Europe but in Turkey as well.

Maybe the incumbent parties in the relevant EU countries wanted to use this as a way to seem as if they're standing up to Muslim aggression in a way to appease the increasingly right wing electorate. Let's see if it works.
 
E.U. should ban dual citizenship. Wish we would.

Some years back, a Turkish senior official went to Germany and addressed a large crowd of German Turks. He told them they should feel attachment to their motherland.

What would Turks say if a large group of Europeans permanently settled in Turkey and EU politicians came to Turkey to campaign...
 
Seems rather reasonable to me given how many Turkish voters there are in the EU. I also find it reasonable that the countries involved might not want such rallies on their soil at this time given what's going on not only in Europe but in Turkey as well.

Maybe the incumbent parties in the relevant EU countries wanted to use this as a way to seem as if they're standing up to Muslim aggression in a way to appease the increasingly right wing electorate. Let's see if it works.
Your second paragraph - I think that's exactly the case. I also think these rallies would be as much Islamic festivals as Turkish political gatherings. And would turn into serious security nightmares, complete with every migrant with a bone to pick showing their asses to the world.

As you've probably guessed, my view of this situation is tinted by my dislike, and more importantly, distrust of Erdogan. No two ways about that.
 
The US should have taken stronger measures after the sailors were attacked. Turkey talking about others treating monorities horribly is like the pot calling the kettle black.
 
Seems rather reasonable to me given how many Turkish voters there are in the EU.

It seems to me like all kind of diplomatic protocols are broken when politicians from one country attempts to hold political rallies in other countries abroad without consulting with the home governments first.

This compounds with the fact that Turkey is not a member of the European Union and the totalitarian policies he's trying to push are clashing with Western values. Erdogan's must be drunk if he think those European countries who hates his guts just gonna sit by idly while his ministers organize rallies (completely unapproved and without permits) in their cities, in an attempt to destroy Turkey as a Republic and turn it into a Dictatorship.

Despite Chancellor Angela Merkel saying her government was not opposed to Turkish ministers attending rallies in Germany, as long as they are "duly announced", her interior minister said he was opposed to Turkish political gatherings in Germany.

"A Turkish campaign has no business being here in Germany," Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere told local media.
 
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Your second paragraph - I think that's exactly the case. I also think these rallies would be as much Islamic festivals as Turkish political gatherings. And would turn into serious security nightmares, complete with every migrant with a bone to pick showing their asses to the world.

As you've probably guessed, my view of this situation is tinted by my dislike, and more importantly, distrust of Erdogan. No two ways about that.
I don't see why you'd think that. The Turks have a very distinct political culture from the rest of the Muslim world and in particular its a lot more secular. Even the AKP, the so called Islamist party of Turkey, doesn't even call itself an Islamist party but rather a conservative one. And these rallies are for a very specific goal; to gain support for the referendum. I see little reason to believe these rallies would become so overtly religious when the issue and the constituency are rather secular.

Its just Erdogan trying to control the outcome as much as possible. In Turkey he has a lot of control over the media so the electorate within Turkey can be influenced that way but the electorate outside it can play spoiler given that they're more exposed to Western media which is skewed against Erdogan. Most likely there's a segment of the Turkish electorate within Turkey that will always vote against Erdogan and with the crackdown on the Kurds, a constituency that was a pillar of support for him, he might need all the votes he can get for this referendum.
It seems to me like all kind of diplomatic protocols are broken when politicians from one country attempts to hold political rallies in other countries abroad without consulting with the home governments first.
I wouldn't be surprised if it does but I can't say that I would know.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if it does but I can't say that I would know.

I'm not an expert on European laws myself.

I can guess what Washington would say if the Castros send over their ministers to covertly organizing a pro-Havana rally without permit in Miami though.
 
I'm not an expert on European laws myself.

I can guess what Washington would say if the Castros send over their ministers to covertly organizing a pro-Havana rally without permit in Miami though.
Cuba's relationship to the US is a bit more complicated though IMO.

And in this case its for a specific purpose, to build support for an election that these dual citizens can vote in, and not just a random pro-Turkey rally. If dual citizens from Brazil were going to vote for an important referendum and a Brazilian politician held a rally in Miami I don't think it would be a big deal assuming it didn't actually break any laws. Of course while Turkey might not be as historically antagonized by the EU as Cuba is by the US the relations are strained right now so its not that I don't understand the Europeans but I'm just saying under normal circumstances I don't think this would be a big deal.
 
German Interior Minister: "A Turkish campaign has no business being here in Germany"
March 13, 2017

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Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere said Sunday he was against Turkish ministers holding political rallies in Germany, and signalled that there are legal ways to stop such campaigns.

"A Turkish campaign has no business being here in Germany," he told public broadcaster ARD, saying he is "strongly opposed politically" to such events.

Ankara is locked in a dispute with several European countries which have sought to stop Turkish ministers from holding rallies in their countries ahead of an April referendum aimed at expanding President Recep Tayyip Erdogan's powers.

German local authorities this month scrapped such campaign appearances overt logistical problems, sparking an angry response from Ankara, which is keen to win votes from the Turkish diaspora.

The row escalated sharply at the weekend after The Netherlands refused to allow Turkish ministers into the country for rallies.

De Maiziere said while he is opposed to such appearances, the question of whether to impose an outright entry ban requires careful consideration.

"But there are limits -- clear limits, for example in the criminal code. It Is hardly noticed," he said.

"Someone who insults and maliciously condemns Germany has committed a criminal offence. That would at least be a limit," he said.

Erdogan had labelled the decision by German local authorities to halt the rallies as "Nazi practices", sparking consternation in Berlin.

Chancellor Angela Merkel called such rhetoric "depressing", saying it belittled Holocaust victims and was "so out of place as to be unworthy of serious comment".

But on any future rallies, she said: "We continue to view such appearances by Turkish government representatives as possible as long as they are duly announced in a timely manner, and in an open way."

Separately, Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble said he hoped Turkey "would return to its senses."

Through the dispute, as well as Ankara's arrest of a correspondent of German daily Die Welt, Schaeuble said: "Turkey and those responsible in Turkey have destroyed the basis for further progress in cooperation."

The latest row over rallies is one in a long list of issues surrounding human rights and freedom of expression that plague Ankara-Berlin ties, particularly since the failed military coup against Erdogan in July.

Berlin has emerged as a strident critic of Ankara's post-coup crackdown, which has seen more than 100,000 people arrested or dismissed from their posts over alleged links to the plotters or to Kurdish militants.

Amid the tension, Florian Hahn, a politician from Merkel's Bavarian allies the CSU, called on Berlin to withdraw its troops stationed at Turkey's Incirlik air base.

De Maiziere however rejected the call, saying German troops were there to "protect NATO interests, and therefore our interests".

https://www.thelocal.de/20170313/turkey-has-no-business-here-campaigning-in-germany-minister
 
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Fuck Erdogan, and him trying to organize Turkish rallies in the EU. Turkey isn't a part of Europe, European culture, or the EU. Peddle your benevolent dictator shtick somewhere else you petulant insecure child. And double extra special fuck you to anyone flying the star and crescent flag in Europe. Traitors.

Time to shore up the European, and especially the EU borders along the Balkan route, and flip him the bird. The Ottomans are acting up again.


Ridiculous Fact:

Turks living abroad are voting in higher numbers in favor of Erdogan than actual Turks.
Over 60% of german Turks voted for the wannabe Sultan at the last Election.
 
Ridiculous Fact:

Turks living abroad are voting in higher numbers in favor of Erdogan than actual Turks.
Over 60% of german Turks voted for the wannabe Sultan at the last Election.
That is odd, I wonder why that is.

Maybe they get defensive and vote for him because of Western criticism while the Turks living in Turkey are more aware of the domestic reasons he might be unpopular?
 
Erdogan wants to turn Turkey in to Russia with himself as the Turkisch version of Putin.
He's a dictator wannabe stirring up shit in Europe hoping it will win him the referendum that gives him even more power.
I don't understand how he has any followers at all. Why do so many Turks wanna live in under a dictator ?
 
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