International Turkey's Lonely Road to Isolation: The World Looks on as Erdogan Jockeys for a Third Decade in Power


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Turkey's Prime Minister and presidential candidate Tayyip Erdogan addresses his supporters during an election rally in Istanbul

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Is-Turkey-heading-for-a-train-wreck-with-the-West-381802

He should be sued for copying the Internet Explorer logo.
 
i tihnk we should kick them out of the F-35 program
 
Erdogan is amassing more power . Becoming more Sultan Erdogan.

"Turkey's parliament has approved key measures allowing the president to be a member of a political party and issue decrees, part of a constitutional reform the opposition says will fuel authoritarianism."

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-politics-constitution-idUSKBN14X0F3
I've read the argument that states with multiple nations within their borders, like Turkey with its Kurdish minority, are better served by parliamentary systems over presidential ones because the coalition building of parliamentary systems is more likely to be inclusive of these separate national communities. So despite expanding the rights of the Kurds initially Erdogan might be changing the system in a way that, in the long run, marginalizes the Kurds within Turkish politics.
 
I've read the argument that states with multiple nations within their borders, like Turkey with its Kurdish minority, are better served by parliamentary systems over presidential ones because the coalition building of parliamentary systems is more likely to be inclusive of these separate national communities. So despite expanding the rights of the Kurds initially Erdogan might be changing the system in a way that, in the long run, marginalizes the Kurds within Turkish politics.
The Turkish supremacists be they followers of Erdogan or secular nationalists are going to regret their greed and chauvinist behavior , because the Kurdish population has a much higher TFR than ethnic Turks. Turkey will only become more Kurdish, so instead of the Turks just giving some portion of Turkey to the Kurds, they are going to have to deal with Kurds all over Turkey. It's a bit like Israel: the Israelis want all of the West Bank, so in their greed they are going to have to accept all the Palestinians in the West Bank as Israeli citizens and in the process not be a Jewish state.
 
The Turkish supremacists be they followers of Erdogan or secular nationalists are going to regret their greed and chauvinist behavior , because the Kurdish population has a much higher TFR than ethnic Turks. Turkey will only become more Kurdish, so instead of the Turks just giving some portion of Turkey to the Kurds, they are going to have to deal with Kurds all over Turkey. It's a bit like Israel: the Israelis want all of the West Bank, so in their greed they are going to have to accept all the Palestinians in the West Bank as Israeli citizens and in the process not be a Jewish state.
I don't think the switch to a presidential system is for the purpose of marginalizing the Kurds though. The AKP have been less anti-Kurdish, often getting the Kurdish vote instead of the ethno-nationalist Turkish party and sometimes over the Kurdish party iirc, so hopefully long term Turkey will be more inclusive of the Kurds.
 
I don't think the switch to a presidential system is for the purpose of marginalizing the Kurds though. The AKP have been less anti-Kurdish, often getting the Kurdish vote instead of the ethno-nationalist Turkish party and sometimes over the Kurdish party iirc, so hopefully long term Turkey will be more inclusive of the Kurds.
Yeah they did have the Kurds on their side ...before the Syrian war. Post war, the Kurds and Erdogan are enemies.

Turkish Foreign Minister says if the US invites Kurds to the Syria peace talks then invite ISIS too.

" ISTANBUL: If the United States wants to invite Kurds to the upcoming Syrian peace talks it might as well invite ISIS, said Turkey's foreign minister Saturday whose country views Kurdish fighters in Syria as extremists. "

https://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/M...-syria-talks-invite-isis-too-turkey-says.ashx
 
Yeah they did have the Kurds on their side ...before the Syrian war. Post war, the Kurds and Erdogan are enemies.

Turkish Foreign Minister says if the US invites Kurds to the Syria peace talks then invite ISIS too.

" ISTANBUL: If the United States wants to invite Kurds to the upcoming Syrian peace talks it might as well invite ISIS, said Turkey's foreign minister Saturday whose country views Kurdish fighters in Syria as extremists. "

https://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/M...-syria-talks-invite-isis-too-turkey-says.ashx
Yeah that's true but admittedly it is a rather serious situation. Like a lot of leftists of course I have sympathy for the Kurds but the reality is that they do have their own terrorists with a history of violence in Turkey and the Syrian Civil War has empowered some of the Kurdish militias. Its a very legitimate security threat to Turkey.

I don't think Erdogan is that anti-Kurdish. The impression I get is that he'd like to have the Kurds within Turkey on his side by appealing to them through Islamic solidarity while trying to keep the Kurds in Syria and Iraq in check so that the Kurds in Turkey don't get any ideas about secession. In the short term that strategy is going to alienate many Kurds in Turkey but I think his best case scenario is in the long run to try to win their favor again because, from what I've heard, they tend to be more religious than the ethnic Turks so they're a natural constituency for the AKP.
 
Turkey's military is weak right now after the purges and being bogged down in Syria, Turkey already hates the West even if we are strategic allies so I say we catch them on the back foot and force them out of Cyprus in a Crimea style takeover.
 
Of course I legitimately hate Turkey and would like to see their country partitioned so I'm not a good person to talk to about this.
 
Erdogan Says Troops Will Be in Cyprus ‘Forever,’ Complicating Hopes of Reuniting
By NICK CUMMING-BRUCE and ANDREAS RIRIS
JAN. 13, 2017

0115-web-CYPRUSmap-460.png

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/13/world/europe/turkey-greece-cyprus-reunification.html

Haha northern Turkey is a complete shithole. The Turks there wish they were In the Greek part, and actually try to immigrate south. The more they continue to divide the island the more the Turks suffer. Greek Cyprus is a beautiful country with nearly none of the cultural setbacks of Greek culture found in Greece (due to the British influence). They are doing just fine without the north which used to be the economic power house of the island.
 
Of course I legitimately hate Turkey and would like to see their country partitioned so I'm not a good person to talk to about this.
Don't feel bad, there are those with even less forgiving attitudes toward Mohammedans.
Like me for example. I think all Muslims should be kicked out from every land they have infested since 622 AD. Every single one of them should be forcefully deported to the Arabic peninsula.
But Cyprus would be a good start. Then Constantinople.
 
How a constitutional amendment could end Turkey’s republic
By Yüksel Sezgin
January 24

imrs.php

On Jan. 21, the Turkish parliament approved a constitutional amendment that would change the current system of government from parliamentary to presidential. The amendment received well more than the 330 votes in the parliament needed for approval, after a deal between the Justice and Development Party (AKP) of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and the ultranationalist MHP.

Those changes will now go to a popular referendum, which will likely take place in early April. Coming in the aftermath of a failed coup attempt and in the midst of a massive crackdown on independent civil society, these proposed amendments would fundamentally change Turkey’s political system.

The proposed changes are so profound that, if passed, they will amount to a total regime change, not just a change in the system of government. Erdogan’s de facto one-man rule will be codified into what can only be described as a sultanistic regime, unprecedented in Turkey or anywhere else in the democratic world. Power would be severely concentrated in the hands of the presidency, with almost no checks and balances. Some Turks worry that the new constitution may even allow him to appoint his sons and sons-in-law as vice presidents and even successors.

The passage of the amendment would crown Erdogan’s long-standing efforts to consolidate power in a presidential system — and could strike a mortal blow to Turkey’s once-flourishing democracy.

The amendment to the constitution creates a super-powerful presidency, in sharp contrast to the current parliamentary system. The amendment would abolish the office of the prime minister, until now the most powerful political position in the Turkish system. The popularly elected president, who occupies a largely ceremonial post under the current constitution, would instead be the head of both the government and the state. The president would be able to serve three consecutive five-year terms and could continue to serve as the chairman of his political party.

Elections for the president and the parliament would be held on the same day to deliver a parliamentary majority to the president’s list, hand-picked by the president himself in his capacity as the chairman of the party.

The hypothetical new position of vice president would serve as the head of state in the event the president is abroad or incapacitated. This position would not be elected but rather appointed along with the cabinet by the president, with no oversight. The parliament has no role in these appointments: It cannot hold confirmation hearings or exercise any supervisory powers over the cabinet, such as interpellation — questioning a policy — or vote of confidence.

Although the parliament — with the approval of two-thirds majority — could refer the president to the Supreme Court for crimes he may commit during his tenure, it would not be able to impeach him or shorten his term. In contrast, the president could dissolve the parliament at his will and call for new elections.


The new amendment also gives the president legislative powers. Should it pass, the president could issue, on behalf of the parliament, presidential decrees with the same legislative power and authority as laws passed by parliament. The new amendment also gives the president enhanced veto powers. To override a presidential veto, an absolute majority in parliament would be needed, while under the current constitution only a simple majority is required.

Though presidential decrees would be subject to review by the Constitutional Court, the court may not be independent and impartial enough to exercise such review authority. According to the amendment, the Constitutional Court would have 15 members, most of them appointed directly or indirectly by the president. Furthermore, the president will also have a major role in the formation of the Council of Judges and Public Prosecutors, technically an independent body that oversees appointment, promotion, disciplining and dismissal of judges and public prosecutors.

Last week, while introducing the amendment bill to the parliament, Minister of Justice Bekir Bozdag claimed that there was really nothing new in the bill, as supporters were simply bringing back “Ataturk’s constitution.” But in many ways, the 1924 constitution that established Ataturk’s republic was a more democratic constitution than what has been proposed by the AKP. Unlike Erdogan’s proposed constitution, the 1924 constitution did not grant the president authority to dissolve the parliament or declare him to be commander in chief. Neither did it give the president strong veto powers since the parliament could override it with simple majority. Moreover, the parliament also retained the authority to exercise supervisory powers over the president’s cabinet through a confidence vote, which the Erdogan’s proposed constitution denies.

Some Turks have argued that Erdogan’s constitution is more reminiscent of the Syrian Constitution of 2012. Like Bashar al-Assad’s version, Erdogan’s constitution would also allow him to dissolve the parliament, appoint his vice presidents, assume legislative powers at the expense of the parliament and act as commander in chief. On paper, Erdogan’s powers could actually surpass those of Assad. For instance, the Turkish parliament, unlike its Syrian counterpart, will have no authority whatsoever to interrogate members of the president’s cabinet or withhold confidence from them.

In the coming referendum, will the Turkish people agree to grant Erdogan powers denied to Ataturk in 1924? The current environment of spiraling violence and economic and political uncertainty makes predicting the outcome difficult. But if they do, it will effectively put an end to the Turkish Republic.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-end-turkeys-republic/?utm_term=.0ddebc823df7
 
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The Turkish supremacists be they followers of Erdogan or secular nationalists are going to regret their greed and chauvinist behavior , because the Kurdish population has a much higher TFR than ethnic Turks. Turkey will only become more Kurdish, so instead of the Turks just giving some portion of Turkey to the Kurds, they are going to have to deal with Kurds all over Turkey. It's a bit like Israel: the Israelis want all of the West Bank, so in their greed they are going to have to accept all the Palestinians in the West Bank as Israeli citizens and in the process not be a Jewish state.

Do you they will really accept a large 5th column in their population?

They will expel Kurds before that happens and the Israelis would do the same with Palestinians. You are nuts if you think there is any collective will for Israeli leadership to accept all Palestinians and in turn destroy their Jewish majority. That won't happen and will never happen. Jews have faced far too much persecution and been appeasers far too long. You'd get war and Israel would fight to the death to maintain it self as a Jewish state. I'd argue that Israel would have to be beaten and destroyed militarily before you ever got even leftists from the Zionist Union to vote for their own ethnic demise.

And I really doubt the surrounding Muslim states will really care and all too much about how Turkey treats it's Kurds.
 
I really hope the crackdown has soured enough people in Turkey to torpedo this referendum.
 
I really hope the crackdown has soured enough people in Turkey to torpedo this referendum.

If this atrocious amendment actually passes, I have my Princess Padme Amidala gifs ready.
 
If this atrocious amendment actually passes, I have my Princess Padme Amidala gifs ready.
The Kurds better not be fucking idiots and blow something up until then. Keep things calm so people can savor the bitter taste of Erdogan's new Turkey before they vote.
 
Do you they will really accept a large 5th column in their population?

They will expel Kurds before that happens and the Israelis would do the same with Palestinians. You are nuts if you think there is any collective will for Israeli leadership to accept all Palestinians and in turn destroy their Jewish majority. That won't happen and will never happen. Jews have faced far too much persecution and been appeasers far too long. You'd get war and Israel would fight to the death to maintain it self as a Jewish state. I'd argue that Israel would have to be beaten and destroyed militarily before you ever got even leftists from the Zionist Union to vote for their own ethnic demise.

And I really doubt the surrounding Muslim states will really care and all too much about how Turkey treats it's Kurds.
Well it would be ethnic cleansing that can't be swept under the rug. Israel has engaged in ethnic cleansing of Palestinians but that was many decades ago and during a hot war. Now, with widespread media dissemination and no Hot war the Israelis can use as an excuse , their ethnic cleansing will be blatant.

Israel will have to accept the Palestinians because they just can't get away with Pakistan level or ISIS level genocide and ethnic cleansing. There are some things even Israel can't get away with.

Just because Jews faced discrimination in the past doesn't give them a get of jail free card . The Pilgrims who came here were also persecuted in Europe , so that means they are excused from genociding the natives?
 
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