Trump Says a Democrat Won in Pennsylvania Because He’s ‘Like Trump’

[Rod1]

It's not a strawman. She wants to move toward a world without immigration quotas. That puts her at odds with millions of people, almost certainly including Bernie Sanders and Conor Lamb.

Based on what?

Yeah, this is a conversation about the long term.

And you said short to mid term, i think most people see humanity united in 500 years. At least most Sci-Fi do so.

That looks a lot like Trump's position.

No, its not, Trump is rabid anti-immigration, both legal and illegal.

 

[waiguoren]

Based on what?

"a hemispheric common market with open borders"

And you said short to mid term, i think most people see humanity united in 500 years. At least most Sci-Fi do so.

Uh, there's a big difference between what most people predict and what appears in sci-fi.

No, its not, Trump is rabid anti-immigration, both legal and illegal.

That's just not true. His views on immigration were spelled out concisely in his interview with Erin Burnett:



In particular, he supports an expanded guest worker program for agricultural workers.

 

[Rod1]

"a hemispheric common market with open borders"

Where is that quote from? what timeframe is given for this common market?

Uh, there's a big difference between what most people predict and what appears in sci-fi.

Cool, that doesnt changes the fact that hoping for the world to come together doesnt means you want open borders in the short term.

That's just not true. His views on immigration were spelled out concisely in his interview with Erin Burnett:

Donald Trump and concisely in the same sentence is a oxymoron.

 

[KaNesDeath]

Was wondering how Trump would explain away this loss. Didnt expect this comically bad reasoning.

 

[waiguoren]

Where is that quote from? what timeframe is given for this common market?

It's from one of her leaked e-mails. No time frame is given but we can assume fairly that she's referring to the long-term.

Cool, that doesnt changes the fact that hoping for the world to come together doesnt means you want open borders in the short term.

For the third time, I never wrote that Clinton wants open borders in the short-term. This seems to be the point of confusion that arose in my conversation with @Jack V Savage .

Donald Trump and concisely in the same sentence is a oxymoron.

He has been consistent on some issues. He wants an end to illegal immigration, reform of the H-1B visa system, a guest worker program, and amnesty for the DACA-eligible people. He is to the left of many (including me) on this issue.

 

[Strychnine]

Beat me to it!

 

[Rod1]

For the third time, I never wrote that Clinton wants open borders in the short-term. This seems to be the point of confusion that arose in my conversation with @Jack V Savage .

Should we strive to live in a world with completely free movement of labor across borders?

To Clinton, the answer is "yes", and we should take steps in the short-term and mid-term in that direction.

So we are pulling a Trump and lying now?

 

[waiguoren]

So we are pulling a Trump and lying now?

Are you here to have an honest discussion, or are you here to make snide comments?

If the former, you really ought to point out any of those supposed lies.

 

[Rod1]

Are you here to have an honest discussion, or are you here to make snide comments?

If the former, you really ought to point out any of those supposed lies.

Cant you read your own comments?

You said Hillary wanted open borders in the short term and then you said you didnt.

 

[waiguoren]

Cant you read your own comments?

You said Hillary wanted open borders in the short term and then you said you didnt.

False.

I never wrote that Hillary Clinton wanted open borders in the short-term.

 

[Rod1]

False.

I never wrote that Hillary Clinton wanted open borders in the short-term.

You did, and you are boldly lying about it.

 

[waiguoren]

You did, and you are boldly lying about it.

....

Could you at least offer a post number? If not, shame on you for that post of yours in which you expressed pedophilic tendencies.

 

[Rod1]

....

Could you at least offer a post number? If not, shame on you for that post of yours in which you expressed pedophilia.

I already provided 2 quotes by you which are in direct contradiction in post 107.

 

[Jopious Extronimous]

What's inconsistent about my statements?

I don't really like Trump as a person. Some of his policies and actions are great, others are not. I am amused by some of his statements.

While defending Trump stating that Lamb is like himself, you let us know you find Trump saying "Lamb is a sham" leads you to like him more.... and you need me to point out the problem with that?

Can I just send you a list of adult learning centers near where you live? I don't know if I'm up for that much work.

 

[waiguoren]

While defending Trump stating that Lamb is like himself

after Lamb had already beaten the candidate Trump was supporting.

you let us know you find Trump saying "Lamb is a sham" leads you to like him more.

before Lamb had beaten the candidate Trump was supporting. See the difference?

... and you need me to point out the problem with that?

Yes.

 

[Bloodworth]

Liberals have always been against gun rights, against fracking, against anti abortion.

Trump always spoke positively about these things

Liberals would bash Trump for being anti abortion , pro fracking ,pro coal, pro guns.

So now they are praising a guy who agrees with Trump on many subjects , but since he has a d next to his name, its nothing to see here

At least republicans have a democrat with their mentality during voting times.

 

[kpt018]

Flake is very punchable. Reminds me of Tim Kennedy with the holier-than-thou thing, except I wouldn't want to punch Tim Kennedy since he would kick my ass. The Breitbart base hates Flake's guts and he has 0 chance of primarying Trump barring illness/death.

Interesting take. Seems to me his criticisms of Trump and what the GOP are spot on and I actually like the guy. Hate his policy positions though. He looks like he’s been punched in the face already lol.

And while you’re right that he won’t win I think the goal would be to stop Trump. He or Kasich or some other gop candidate could run as an independent just to prevent a second term for Trump.

 

[Throttlehead]

Liberals have always been against gun rights, against fracking, against anti abortion.

Trump always spoke positively about these things

Liberals would bash Trump for being anti abortion , pro fracking ,pro coal, pro guns.

So now they are praising a guy who agrees with Trump on many subjects , but since he has a d next to his name, its nothing to see here

At least republicans have a democrat with their mentality during voting times.

Trump has spoke positively about EVERYTHING at one point. You actually think he has values? He is just conning as usual

 

[Gandhi]

In my model, establishment v. outsider considerations can have at most medium-size effects on electoral outcomes at the national level. Typically they are dwarfed by other factors such as charisma, state-by-state strategy and effective manipulation of the news cycle.


Yes.



I disagree. I don't believe Trump is racist and I don't believe southern voters are primarily or even largely driven by racism.

I think Trump shored up evangelical support more effectively than Romney or McCain did and had the benefit of running against one of the most hated people in the deep South. His margins in Mississippi and Alabama were very close to Bush's margins in 2004 and significantly better than Romney's or McCain's. On the other hand, the gap in Georgia continued to fall and his numbers in Kentucky and Tennessee were about par for the course.



Again, disagree. Conor Lamb is a prototypical rustbelt politician, a "blue dog" Democrat. Trump's most significant political accomplishment was capturing millions of Obama voters and other Democrats in the rustbelt with appeals on the issues of trade, immigration and war.

I’ll maybe get back this when I have some time. I am not saying your analysis is without merit I just think you are picking and choosing in a way to back into your conclusion. I mean we all do this to an extent but it seems a little more blatant here to me.

Trump’s most significant accomplishments were that he managed to win the republican primary through blatant appeals to ethno and economic nationalism. The tea party / evangelical party that was so worried about debt during the GFC and sweaters during Clinton all of sudden could not give a shit about debt and went all in for the birther/ groper in chief, sure race/ tribalism had nothing to do this.

His second big accomplishment was winnings the presidency because a sig portion of the democratic base stayed home.

Given his narrow win from a vote perspective it’s easy to pick the factors you like when almost anything could have changed the outcome. The troll vote along could have made the difference.

Look if the point is that Dems need a better answer on trade, that is a viable but not quite the same as what you seem to be saying. Trump certainly does not have a good answer, he is just throwing out bombs as usual. A minor blue dog tap dance does not equal Trump.

Yeah I guess I ended up answering ha.

 

[waiguoren]

Trump’s most significant accomplishments were that he managed to win the republican primary through blatant appeals to ethno and economic nationalism.

End illegal immigration, punish the trading partners who are exploiting us, less US solidiers in the Middle East. Again, the trifecta. How did he beat 16 actual Republicans at their own game? By getting ahead of them on these issues and being smart enough to spot his real opposition within the crowd.

The tea party / evangelical party that was so worried about debt during the GFC and sweaters during Clinton all of sudden could not give a shit about debt and went all in for the birther/ groper in chief, sure race/ tribalism had nothing to do this.

Seems like a non-sequitur. The evangelicals cared most about SCOTUS and they got their reassurance, plus they hated Hillary Clinton more than any other group. I'm still not really sure what the Tea Party Movement was about, so I can't answer you on that one, but Trump did promise to slash the debt during the campaign.

His second big accomplishment was winnings the presidency because a sig portion of the democratic base stayed home.

Turnout in 2016 was quite high. It turns out that much of the Democratic base flipped sides to vote for Trump all throughout the rustbelt. I computed and compiled some of the state data in one of the betting threads. Trump did well in the South but his performance was comparable to GWB in 2004, plus those electoral votes were already locked down. Trump underperformed in blue states. The only unexpected thing about Trump's performance was he outperformed every Republican since Reagan in PA/WI/MI/OH. For example:

Wisconsin: GHWB -4.5, Dole -10.5, GWB -0.2, GWB -0.4, McCain -14, Romney -7, Trump +1.

Ohio: GHWB -2, Dole -6, GWB +3, GWB +2, McCain -4.5 ,Romney -3, Trump +8.

Trump outperformed Romney by 11% in Ohio, 8% in Wisconsin, 10% in Michigan and 6% in Pennsylvania.

Given his narrow win from a vote perspective it’s easy to pick the factors you like when almost anything could have changed the outcome. The troll vote along could have made the difference.

Given the rustbelt phenomenon I described above, and considering the massive electoral haul that comes with winning the rustbelt, the important question is: why did most of the country vote pretty normally while the rustbelt suddenly shifted so hard in Trump's favor? @Jack V Savage has implied that race played an important role. I think it had more to do with trade and immigration policies that the voters in those states believed would benefit them.

Look if the point is that Dems need a better answer on trade, that is a viable but not quite the same as what you seem to be saying. Trump certainly does not have a good answer, he is just throwing out bombs as usual. A minor blue dog tap dance does not equal Trump.

Sanders would have beaten Trump. Does that make my view clearer? It's the trifecta (trade/immigration/troop commitments) that those rustbelt swing voters are looking at. Trump has no advantage vis a vis Sanders there. Clinton is very weak there.