International Trump/Kim Singapore Summit **UPDATE** Korean Denuclearization Agreement Signed

[syct23]

Well I don't want to say, that was fast...

But.

 

[HomerThompson]

I don't want to over read this but are they suggesting that the reason NK has been cooperative with the US is to curry favor with the chinese?

I think that's the effect certainly. China may have been in on it as well. Trump really gave away the farm here.

First Kim to ever meet with a sitting U.S. President(legitimization).

Trump so desperate to win he makes outrageous claims about NK no longer being a threat.

China can stop participating in sanctions based on Trump's own rhetoric and folly.


It makes perfect sense for NK to have played Trump as a way to ease sanctions without giving up anything.

 

[HomerThompson]

SEOUL/TOKYO (Reuters) - North Korea said on Saturday its resolve to give up its nuclear programs may falter after talks with the United States in Pyongyang, contradicting Secretary of State Mike Pompeo who lauded progress made on nearly all key issues.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...second-day-of-north-korea-talks-idUSKBN1JX03B

 

[Fawlty]

SEOUL/TOKYO (Reuters) - North Korea said on Saturday its resolve to give up its nuclear programs may falter after talks with the United States in Pyongyang, contradicting Secretary of State Mike Pompeo who lauded progress made on nearly all key issues.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...second-day-of-north-korea-talks-idUSKBN1JX03B

As much as I'm enjoying the circus and the best clowns, believe me, it's sad to see it go the same way yet again. I still think it was worth a try to offer a security guarantee, despite that meaning us getting completely bent over.

 

[Deleted member 457759]

There will be serious repercussions for NK if they think they're fooling the Emperor.

And China too.

 

[Execute]

There will be serious repercussions for NK if they think they're fooling the Emperor.

And China too.

With what leverage? More sanctions? We've already handicapped ourselves with trade wars on multiple fronts, and with some of our biggest allies.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

With what leverage? More sanctions? We've already handicapped ourselves with trade wars on multiple fronts, and with some of our biggest allies.

Like I've said Trump's foreign policy has been the worst aspect of his presidency.

You can fix domestic policies rather quickly if the political will is there but alliances take generations to make and strengthen.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

 

[Deleted member 457759]

With what leverage? More sanctions? We've already handicapped ourselves with trade wars on multiple fronts, and with some of our biggest allies.

America has lots of leverage over China.

Trade
Taiwan
South China sea
Ability to shut down the Arab gulf choking oil supply

 

[Andy Capp]

So satellite images show NK is still upgrading it's nuclear facility...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/north-...-facility-despite-summit-diplomacy-1530100351

#obligatory

#justfordirt

 

[PolishHeadlock]

 

[Brodels]

I

 

[MiniCraque]

I think that's the effect certainly. China may have been in on it as well. Trump really gave away the farm here.

First Kim to ever meet with a sitting U.S. President(legitimization).

Trump so desperate to win he makes outrageous claims about NK no longer being a threat.

China can stop participating in sanctions based on Trump's own rhetoric and folly.


It makes perfect sense for NK to have played Trump as a way to ease sanctions without giving up anything.

Yeah, the legitimization is more than his father could ever have hoped for. It's no longer a joke of a regime when you have clips of the POTUS covering him with compliments.

Kim is often portrayed as a stupid kid way over his head but he sure as fuck played some mad 4D chess with Trump.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

I am giving you my honest opinion. Of course I agree that he "has taken many actions whose outcomes are still unknown and has had many other attempts at actions obstructed." But it's also true that our country is doing quite well by most objective metrics, at least relative to the last couple decades. I give Trump credit for that, because those measures were proximately affected by his decisions. I could write a long post about it with lots of hyperlinks and sources, like I do for legal topics (I write plenty of in-depth posts on this forum, and very few of them get read). I think I'll save that for another day.

You're obviously a smart guy but your views are skewed to the right. You're viewing Trump through rose colored glasses. You're free to believe in him and agree with his policies but that isn't empirical evidence that he's been doing a good job.

He's been so far to the right, and unwilling to compromise, that the country would almost certainly be stronger with a leader that could unite both sides and marginalize the radical partisans. Not to mention the threat of corruption and attacks on our democracy that seem to be ignored by him and his base. And the damage that's being done to our international reputation and alliances.

Nunes' committee is a perfect example of how justice is being perverted and used as a weapon to attack his critics and provide cover for behavior that is at the very least questionable if not outright illegal.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

I'd be curious if you would do an honest assessment or repeat the usual lies of Trump supporters. Trump supporters tend to pretend he didn't inherit a strong economy with a low (and dropping) unemployment and really like to pretend that his war on terror hasn't been a complete disaster (for instance, the Taliban note control more of Afghanistan than they ever have before). This is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the lies of Trump supporters.

They're Trumps lies, and those of his staff and media personalities that have personal relationships with him, so it's hard to blame his average supporter that just regurgitates it all. Conmen are successful because they know how to prey on our psychology. The mark sometimes has no idea they were even scammed.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

I wanted North Korea to nuke South Korea
I view any success here as a major loss for my Democratic Party

Signed democrats


We should all be pulling for the agreement to fail so our side can win

Don't be disingenuous. Nobody wants that. It would be great if Trump actually accomplished something and he'd get the credit for it. As it stands it was just a publicity stunt so he can claim a victory and make a grab at a Nobel.

 

[Joe]

 

[JamesRussler]

You're obviously a smart guy but your views are skewed to the right. You're viewing Trump through rose colored glasses. You're free to believe in him and agree with his policies but that isn't empirical evidence that he's been doing a good job.

He's been so far to the right, and unwilling to compromise, that the country would almost certainly be stronger with a leader that could unite both sides and marginalize the radical partisans. Not to mention the threat of corruption and attacks on our democracy that seem to be ignored by him and his base. And the damage that's being done to our international reputation and alliances.

Nunes' committee is a perfect example of how justice is being perverted and used as a weapon to attack his critics and provide cover for behavior that is at the very least questionable if not outright illegal.

Here's the thing: I've been on the Left my whole life. There's nothing Democrats can say that I haven't heard before. I support civil liberties, working class economic issues, curbing government overreach, and stuff like that (alot of it probably falls under the "Libertarian" label). Recently, the Left has moved really, really far Left. They endorse things like open borders, free trade, identity politics, etc. Those are positions which I cannot in good conscience defend. I already had strong doubts about the Left when Trump came along. On some issues, I had to admit that I was wrong all along, and the Conservatives were right. I hate to think that I simply "grew out" of a Liberal phase, but that probably has something to do with it. I'm older, wiser, and more responsible that I once was.

Trump of course says many things I agree with – things which logically should have no counterargument (e.g. there should be no objection to enforcing immigration laws). So whether you call him "Left" or "Right," common sense should tell you that he's correct. In many cases, politicians won't exercise common sense because it's is politically incorrect, or politically hazardous. To that end, Trump gets credit for being the only person in the room with the courage to speak the truth. The Left hasn't presented a logical alternative to Trump's policies, so I'm going to support Trump at this juncture.

As for your criticism of Nunes, I've followed those investigations closely and I see nothing wrong with what he's done. On the contrary, I see the Left cheering for people like Peter Strzok – a guy who was basically caught red-handed trying to frame President Trump. So now Dems / Libs are suddenly in favor of "law and order?" Bullshit. All that pearl clutching about police abuse, but the Dems have no problem with it when it's targeting a political adversary. DISGUSTING. When I see stuff like that, I doubt I can ever support the Left again. Love Trump, or hate him, but abusing criminal process to unseat a duly elected president is just evil.

At the end of the day, you disagree with Trump, and you disagree with me. If you don't like it, vote against us in the next election. But let's not pretend that we're in the middle of a crisis. IMO, things are pretty damn peachy. I got exactly what I voted for, so I'm happy.

 

[That209]

Idk I feel like one of them is still going to piss of the other eventually and shit will go down.

 

[LangfordBarrow]

Here's the thing: I've been on the Left my whole life. There's nothing Democrats can say that I haven't heard before. I support civil liberties, working class economic issues, curbing government overreach, and stuff like that (alot of it probably falls under the "Libertarian" label). Recently, the Left has moved really, really far Left. They endorse things like open borders, free trade, identity politics, etc. Those are positions which I cannot in good conscience defend. I already had strong doubts about the Left when Trump came along, but the Left's insanity has caused me to further reevaluate my former positions on things like guns, "gay rights," "tolerance," "diversity," etc. On some issues, I had to admit that I was wrong all along, and the Conservatives were right. I hate to think that I simply "grew out" of a Liberal phase, but that probably has something to do with it. I'm older, wiser, and more responsible that I once was.

Trump of course says many things I agree with – things which logically should have no counterargument (e.g. there should be no objection to enforcing immigration laws). So whether you call him "Left" or "Right," common sense should tell you that he's correct. In many cases, politicians won't exercise common sense because it's is politically incorrect, or politically hazardous. To that end, Trump gets credit for being the only person in the room with the courage to speak the truth. The Left hasn't presented a logical alternative to Trump's policies, so I'm going to support Trump at this juncture.

As for your criticism of Nunes, I've followed those investigations closely and I see nothing wrong with what he's done. On the contrary, I see the Left cheering for people like Peter Strzok – a guy who was basically caught red-handed trying to frame President Trump. So now Dems / Libs are suddenly in favor of "law and order?" Bullshit. All that pearl clutching about police abuse, but the Dems have no problem with it when it's targeting a political adversary. DISGUSTING. When I see stuff like that, I doubt I can ever support the Left again. Love Trump, or hate him, but abusing criminal process to unseat a duly elected president is just evil.

At the end of the day, you disagree with Trump, and you disagree with me. If you don't like it, vote against us in the next election. But let's not pretend that we're in the middle of a crisis. IMO, things are pretty damn peachy. I got exactly what I voted for, so I'm happy.

Well said. I do think there's a problem with radicalization on both sides. I don't follow your posts but some of the ones I've read place you on the far right. It's almost shocking to hear you used to be a liberal. This is a free country so we're all entitled to our beliefs and what policies we support.

I do disagree that there's not enough evidence for these investigations. The Trump Tower meeting and the fact they lied about it are reason enough by itself to investigate what exactly was going on. Add to it that Manafort was part of that meeting and held a powerful position in the campaign, and all of Nunes' shady behavior do indicate there's a problem here, it's not just hysterics because the other side won. Just look at the report he released, that was fully partisan and conducted behind closed doors, that pushed the narrative Trump has been disseminating and runs counter to the Senate's and all our intelligence agencies' findings.

Hopefully Mueller will be able to finish without the country having to go through a constitutional crisis, but if anything is clear is that Trump puts his own interests above that of the country, so nothing would surprise me at this point.