Trump flirting with big Super Hornet order

[Limbo Pete]

God knows with the Indians. Their procurement processes are the gold standard of "what not to do" the world over. My understanding is that systemic corruption really hurts them, which is why they operate such a disparate fleet of different platforms, from all around the world, across every branch of their military.

Never had much experience learning about their military, but if its like everything else.... well, India is batshit crazy disjointed in general. Seriously, that place is a logistical and bureaucratic nightmare.

 

[Boagrius]

Never had much experience learning about their military, but if its like everything else.... well, India is batshit crazy disjointed in general. Seriously, that place is a logistical and bureaucratic nightmare.

Their military procurement decisions are much the same - chaotic and seemingly random. Sucks for them - they could be an even bigger player geopolitically if they had a more efficient system.

 

[Limbo Pete]

Their military procurement decisions are much the same - chaotic and seemingly random. Sucks for them - they could be an even bigger player geopolitically if they had a more efficient system.

I've spent about a year and a half now in school learning about India in various ways plus 2 weeks in Rajasthan. The military presence by the border of Pakistan was intense and very serious but had definite shades of Indian inefficiency.

 

[Boagrius]

I've spent about a year and a half now in school learning about India in various ways plus 2 weeks in Rajasthan. The military presence by the border of Pakistan was intense and very serious but had definite shades of Indian inefficiency.

Sounds about right. They're not totally hopeless - the IAF for instance have garnered the respect of many in the USAF for their professionalism. I take it their bureacracy are more the problem.

 

[Limbo Pete]

Sounds about right. They're not totally hopeless - the IAF for instance have garnered the respect of many in the USAF for their professionalism. I take it their bureacracy are more the problem.

Yeah the bureacracy in India is unbelievably dense

 

[GhostZ06]

Sounds about right. They're not totally hopeless - the IAF for instance have garnered the respect of many in the USAF for their professionalism. I take it their bureacracy are more the problem.

there mixed nato/pact gear is really intresting but i can only imaigne how much of a nightmare that is.

 

[Boagrius]

there mixed nato/pact gear is really intresting but i can only imaigne how much of a nightmare that is.

Yep. Logistically it must be ludicrous.

 

[4daLuLZ]

Actually I'm doing my best to keep this in layman's terms for you. You can't just retrofit the guts of an F35 into an older jet because they weren't designed to handle them to begin with. The weight, space and power margins just aren't there. The SH, for example, was never meant to cope with the sheer volume of data that the F35's sensor suite can generate. Add shared data onto this and it gets ridiculous.

Once you realise that many of the US's 4th gen assets are now becoming so geriatric that they're killing people, the whole retrofitting enterprise just becomes silly.

Let me assist you in explaining it in terms @VivaRevolution can comprehend.

It's just like you can't transform Conor McGregor into the Heavyweight Champion (fmr.) Cain Velasquez.
Sure, you can stuff him full of steroids and bring his weight up to 205+ lbs but it'll never be the same. Won't have the same frame to handle all that additional muscle, the same work capacity and won't have the same power and ability. In short, it'll be a bloated shit show. Think Kimbo Slice vs Dada 5000. Do you really want Kimbo Slice defending Americana ???

Yes, Cain is always breaking down and has sub-optimal operational availability and does spend most of his time in the hangar (recovering from injuries) but bringing in McGregor isn't the answer.
No matter how vocal some "fans" might get.

Cain must be nurtured, tended to, maybe a new management team to get his full potential out. Then, when it's his time to get roided out.....sorry...when his genetic predisposition to abysmally low Test levels is discovered and various upgrades / fixes are installed .....UBERCain will emerge and restablish American superiority over all near rivals for the next generation.

However, with a boss like Dana White (Donald Trump ?) anything's possible.


Fin

*the author of this post in no way condones partaking of Performance Enhancing Drugs, colloquially known as Steroids or Roids. Nor does he claim or disclaim any evidence of any fighter using any steroids EVER.
Any similarity of any names or circumstances is entirely unintentional and circumstantial. Alternately, they could be alternative facts not entirely with any basis in reality. Maybe.

 

[4daLuLZ]

You could be right, you could be full of shit.

What I know is that it is possible to design aircraft that are meant to be retrofitted so we don't need a whole new fleet of new jets every 10 years.

I know planned obscelecence when I see it. Boeing and Lockheed Martin have no interest in designing a fighter jet that would be the last frame built for the next 50-100 years.

The Hornet's been around since the 1970's.

So you probably mean ".....do we need a new fleet every 40-50 years ?"
Yes you do. You do.

 

[4daLuLZ]

What about when an f-35 gets into a dogfight with a MIG? it will lose.

It'd be like what if that Lamborghini gets into a field with a tractor.

lmoa yes because in war thing always just go so perfect ehh.

Well there we go, the mig will push the f35 shit in gun to gun. Its ok you can say it.

Yes, just like in collar to collar combat, a knife might be more handy than an AR 15.

But which would you prefer to leave your house with if we at war ?

 

[4daLuLZ]

Or it comes down to the one jet having super maneuverability and the other NOT.

F35 best always bug out with two missiles in its ass just for safety.

F35 or no, my layman common sense would dictate that ALL pilots do that. Unless it's critical and their exits are covered / over friendly territory.

Ppl with better and actual experience may correct me.

 

[JDragon]

Very entertaining thread. Also this is me liking @Boagrius ' posts

 

[4daLuLZ]

I'm shocked that "modernization" includes a person inside a plane. Would assume that drones, satellites, microwave weapons, and a flying base station would be the elements of any new advanced aircraft for war.

The other thing that occurred to me was the idea of using many smaller, lower performing drones. Why spend $100m per plane that is flown by a person who is subject to physiological inertial limits when you can throw out 1000 smaller more agile drones for the same price? make them single use and double their range.

I don't know shit from shinola about military fighter planes but the F-35 just stinks of an engineering program that fell into a rabbit hole. And while they were in that rabbit hole a cheaper simpler technology emerged that is superior.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think there's any operational drone out there right now that can outfly a manned jet. The more agile +12G drones are theoretical for now.

The best can only perform at a low turboprop level. That means your great grandpa's Mustang, Spitfire etc will out perform it.

The Red Baron might....just might have his hands full though.


EDIT : Boagriys beat me to it in post #67

 

[4daLuLZ]

Cant jam or fool a bullet.

Sure you can.
You need a gun radar to fire, don't you ?

 

[Boagrius]

Very entertaining thread. Also this is me liking @Boagrius ' posts

Haha you are too kind. Glad I could be of service.

F35 or no, my layman common sense would dictate that ALL pilots do that. Unless it's critical and their exits are covered / over friendly territory.

Ppl with better and actual experience may correct me.

Correct.

- If a properly trained pilot of ANY fighter goes winchester (out of missiles) it is time to go home 9 times out of 10. If a bad guy shows up nearby this becomes all the more urgent.

- Going guns only against an alerted bandit who could still have missiles ready to go (for all you know) would be stupid in the extreme.

- Mercifully, US pilots are trained better than that, and the F35 is about as impossible to take by surprise as a jet can get.

 

[Boagrius]

Sure you can.
You need a gun radar to fire, don't you ?

You need a radar lock for a decent firing solution/to be able to aim properly, yes.

F35 definitely has the potential to f*ck with this via its stealth signature working in tandem with Barracuda and the ALE70 towed decoy.

 

[4daLuLZ]

God knows with the Indians. Their procurement processes are the gold standard of "what not to do" the world over. My understanding is that systemic corruption really hurts them, which is why they operate such a disparate fleet of different platforms, from all around the world, across every branch of their military.

The main reason they have so many makes is due to their negative experiences with sanctions during war time.

That's why they hedge their bets with France and Russia. Now they're taking baby steps with the US.

That's what a lot of ppl don't understand about US arms sales. Sell enough to a country and suddenly you have a lot of influence over them when war breaks out.
Why do you really think the US sells arms to EGYPT, Jordan and the Saudis ?
Even though they're enemies with the US's main strategic partner in the region, Israel.

War isn't about the shiny guns or missiles. Those only start one.
Real war is about supplies and logistics.

See Germany last century. Napoleon etc etc through history.


India's defense procurement process is a nightmare though.

 

[Boagrius]

The main reason they have so many makes is due to their negative experiences with sanctions during war time.

That's why they hedge their bets with France and Russia. Now they're taking baby steps with the US.

That's what a lot of ppl don't understand about US arms sales. Sell enough to a country and suddenly you have a lot of influence over them when war breaks out.
Why do you really think the US sells arms to EGYPT, Jordan and the Saudis ?
Even though they're enemies with the US's main strategic partner in the region, Israel.

War isn't about the shiny guns or missiles. Those only start one.
Real war is about supplies and logistics.

See Germany last century. Napoleon etc etc through history.


India's defense procurement process is a nightmare though.

Fair point.

 

[lecter]

> writing software for safety-critical systems in C/C++ because of lack of available Ada programmers to meet deadlines
> complaining about never-ending amount of bugs which don't allow to meet deadlines

 

[GhostZ06]

Let me assist you in explaining it in terms @VivaRevolution can comprehend.

It's just like you can't transform Conor McGregor into the Heavyweight Champion (fmr.) Cain Velasquez.
Sure, you can stuff him full of steroids and bring his weight up to 205+ lbs but it'll never be the same. Won't have the same frame to handle all that additional muscle, the same work capacity and won't have the same power and ability. In short, it'll be a bloated shit show. Think Kimbo Slice vs Dada 5000. Do you really want Kimbo Slice defending Americana ???

Yes, Cain is always breaking down and has sub-optimal operational availability and does spend most of his time in the hangar (recovering from injuries) but bringing in McGregor isn't the answer.
No matter how vocal some "fans" might get.

Cain must be nurtured, tended to, maybe a new management team to get his full potential out. Then, when it's his time to get roided out.....sorry...when his genetic predisposition to abysmally low Test levels is discovered and various upgrades / fixes are installed .....UBERCain will emerge and restablish American superiority over all near rivals for the next generation.

However, with a boss like Dana White (Donald Trump ?) anything's possible.


Fin

*the author of this post in no way condones partaking of Performance Enhancing Drugs, colloquially known as Steroids or Roids. Nor does he claim or disclaim any evidence of any fighter using any steroids EVER.
Any similarity of any names or circumstances is entirely unintentional and circumstantial. Alternately, they could be alternative facts not entirely with any basis in reality. Maybe.

lol


/thread