Transgender politics: conversion therapy bans

[Twelve75]

Its enough for you to changes sides and cheer on the religion of peace,I wonder how many tits and cock combinations would be so outspoken in that world.

 

[sangreporsangre]

It's difficult to say what the future holds, it seems that a violent pendulum swing is just as likely as society sinking into illiberalism.

From what I've gathered on this forum, those who are silent purport to believe that the risks of this ideology are benign and they undermine it by stating that this is just a couple of college students and is only a fringe belief.

"Those who are silent" - I like that. It might end up being the title of a book or documentary about this sad chapter of our history some day.

I made this thread in the hopes of drawing in some of the more prominent left-wing/Democrat/Liberal type posters for a discussion about this. Not a left vs right poop throwing contest but a frank discussion about what this ideology really entails. For the most part they haven't posted in here. Probably because of all the Trump drama that's going on.....but I wonder if a bunch of them have poked there heads in here, realized that some of this shit can't be defended and just decided to pass. I think deep down most of them know that this shit is twisted, the ones who have actually looked into it at least. And the idea that this is just a few kids on Tumblr and on campus is ridiculous at this point, as I think has been made very clear in this thread.

 

[ultramanhyata]

Breaking down gender/sexual mores is has the same basic function within Marxism as destroying ethnic identity; stripping away all forms of human identity until all attention is concentrated on economic divisions. What Marx did acknowledge is that so long as any social constructs are given more attention than than wealth, "class warfare" cannot be effectively waged.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourgeois_nationalism

Nice attempt at jiu jitsu there. (I can't tell if you're wily or just stupid.)

Having acknowledged the definition of bourgeois nationalism and its historicity within Marxism, how can you possibly attempt to accuse Marxists of seeking to divide societies through the use of identity politics??

SJW's are actually one of the greatest opponents of true Marxists because SJW's refuse to coalesce around class and make class divisions paramount.

The race, gender and sexual identity shit has no role in Marxist revolution. Because blacks, browns, women, trans, gays, etc. can all be capitalists.

 

[dontsnitch]

"Those who are silent" - I like that. It might end up being the title of a book or documentary about this sad chapter of our history some day.

I made this thread in the hopes of drawing in some of the more prominent left-wing/Democrat/Liberal type posters for a discussion about this. Not a left vs right poop throwing contest but a frank discussion about what this ideology really entails. For the most part they haven't posted in here. Probably because of all the Trump drama that's going on.....but I wonder if a bunch of them have poked there heads in here, realized that some of this shit can't be defended and just decided to pass. I think deep down most of them know that this shit is twisted, the ones who have actually looked into it at least. And the idea that this is just a few kids on Tumblr and on campus is ridiculous at this point, as I think has been made very clear in this thread.

You won't get many people defending this just because it is very difficult to defend, but I've seen people claim that this is a innocuous fad which the rest of us are merely exaggerating. I will take them at their word on this, but when we're talking about policy, it's no longer innocuous by definition.

 

[sangreporsangre]

Parents who chemically or surgically "transition" the gender of their prepubescent child should be locked up in a very small cage for a very long time.

That's about the only opinion I have on this issue. Whether you have trendy pro-LGBT parents or stubbornly religious 'conversion therapy' parents, that's all stuff that you could arguably get over later in life. We can't ban mere wackiness or dumb summer camps.

When someone puts their underage child on hormones that will basically render them chemically disabled for the rest of their life, the parents should be charged with a felony.

Yea of course, but isn't it weird that some governments are making it harder for parents to refuse? In the abstract you think "oh those sick fucks to do that to their kid" but then when you really see the individual parents I think it would break our hearts. Your kid gets all fucked up with this however but then school is encouraging it, media pounds and reinforces it, you go to these doctors and they push you to start as soon as possible, if you don't something terrible will happen. Your kid might have the wrong puberty!





But that's not enough....now there's a push to have the state intervene and possibly take your kids if you don't consent to have your kid fully transition?

I honestly feel bad for most of these these parents, my heart breaks for them. It's not them who need to go to prison - it's the ones pushing and performing these sick procedures on kids.

 

[AviatorShades]

Nice attempt at jiu jitsu there. (I can't tell if you're wily or just stupid.)

Having acknowledged the definition of bourgeois nationalism and its historicity within Marxism, how can you possibly attempt to accuse Marxists of seeking to divide societies through the use of identity politics??

I said no such thing.

Marxism explicitly prioritizes economics ("class conflict") above all other human endeavors and seeks to destroy by any means (not amplify) what they perceive as unnecessary divisions.

Those divisions include the pragmatic mores which define a unique culture, or the fragile bloodlines which constitute a unique ethnicity, because Marxists view these as distractions from pure class conflict. Sexual/gender/reproductive norms fall into both categories.

The Democrat Party-- a crony capitalist clique that just rips off Marxist slogans and uses them to quench misguided urban angst -- does leverage identity politics to amplify division, but I wasn't talking about them. As long as birthrate imbalances exist there will be political parties trying to cash in by making the transition as ugly as possible and demonizing the shrinking demographic.

Maybe you are assuming that I can't distinguish between the two?

 

[MacDuffle]

ITT we ban gender body modification while getting tattoos, implants, haircuts, nose jobs, heart transplants labiaplasties teeth pulled nails clipped legs waxed beards shaved eyebrows plucked and face piercings

because removing/altering parts of the body is for freaks

 

[AgonyandIrony]

Who really gives a shit? Why are you talking about it?

I know no trans people and will never know any trans people because I will immediately disassociate with them. The only exposure to any trans people I will ever have might be 1 time in a bathroom 1 day in my life. It's not even worth thinking about.

Im friends with several trans people. Why would you immediately disassociate with them?

A friend I grew up identified as male from a super young age, I've talked about him before. He didnt take medical treatments until he was over 18, I saw how he was treated by the rednecks in my town and it was brutal. Now he's way happier, doesn't drink anymore, and going through conversion therapy. Happy for the dude.

 

[cabal]

Like Uranus, the american system eats his own sons

 

[sangreporsangre]

ITT we ban gender body modification while getting tattoos, implants, haircuts, nose jobs, heart transplants labiaplasties teeth pulled nails clipped legs waxed beards shaved eyebrows plucked and face piercings

because removing/altering parts of the body is for freaks

Hmm? That seems like a weird way to characterize this thread - "ban gender modification"? Is that what you think is meant by conversion therapy ban......did you read the OP at all?

What's your opinion on Lupron being given to pre-pubescent children to chemically delay their puberty? What do you think about activist's attempts (increasingly successful) to lower age limits and mental health counselling requirements for hormone therapy and sex reassignment surgery? Do you feel that the push to affirm a child's "authentic self" and begin the transition process as soon as possible is backed up by science? What do you think about the media push for gender affirming therapy? Do you have any opinion on gender theory being taught to children in schools with things like the "gender unicorn" etc?

 

[superpunch]

Im friends with several trans people. Why would you immediately disassociate with them?

A friend I grew up identified as male from a super young age, I've talked about him before. He didnt take medical treatments until he was over 18, I saw how he was treated by the rednecks in my town and it was brutal. Now he's way happier, doesn't drink anymore, and going through conversion therapy. Happy for the dude.

Same reason I wouldn't associate with anyone I know who does hard drugs.

Are they a sane, normal person? Maybe. But it's very likely they're not and that could cause unneeded and unwanted hardship in my life. Crazy people have a way of doing bad things to you that you wouldn't expect and tons of trans people are crazy.

What is it like a 40% attempted suicide rate? I don't even think heroin addicts are that crazy. There's so many other people out there to meet -- why risk the high likelihood of crazy?

 

[ultramanhyata]

I said no such thing.

Marxism explicitly prioritizes economics ("class conflict") above all other human endeavors and seeks to destroy by any means (not amplify) what they perceive as unnecessary divisions.

Those divisions include the pragmatic mores which define a unique culture, or the fragile bloodlines which constitute a unique ethnicity, because Marxists view these as distractions from pure class conflict. Sexual/gender/reproductive norms fall into both categories.

The Democrat Party-- a crony capitalist clique that just rips off Marxist slogans and uses them to quench misguided urban angst -- does leverage identity politics to amplify division, but I wasn't talking about them. As long as birthrate imbalances exist there will be political parties trying to cash in by making the transition as ugly as possible and demonizing the shrinking demographic.

Maybe you are assuming that I can't distinguish between the two?

So you reject as absurd the notion of "cultural Marxism"? And the attempt, by those who use it, to connect Marx to a strategy of identity politics?

 

[MacDuffle]

Hmm? That seems like a weird way to characterize this thread - "ban gender modification"? Is that what you think is meant by conversion therapy ban......did you read the OP at all?

What's your opinion on Lupron being given to pre-pubescent children to chemically delay their puberty? What do you think about activist's attempts (increasingly successful) to lower age limits and mental health counselling requirements for hormone therapy and sex reassignment surgery? Do you feel that the push to affirm a child's "authentic self" and begin the transition process as soon as possible is backed up by science? What do you think about the media push for gender affirming therapy? Do you have any opinion on gender theory being taught to children in schools with things like the "gender unicorn" etc?

If it was a direct reply to OP I would have put a reply box, calm down

You're not the only one taking positions here. It's my reply to 'natural state' arguments throughout this thread and the bulk WR when it comes to bashing that stuff. If biological alteration is so sacred to neo-cons, tell them they can't cut their hair or nails.

As for tacking your OP's early transition arguments to my post, fuck that, I see what you're doing. Cognitive development science is a real field, and it continues to define our laws. It's the reason consent laws protect post-pubescent 14 year olds from making sexual judgements themselves, and I don't see the argument change for hormone therapy. When an individual posseses "adult"/appropriately developed cognition biologically, they are legally allowed to make adult decisions. Drinking ages, driving ages vary, but it's safe to say the ages you're talking about aren't fully formed for those modifications, and parents shouldn't provide that individual's consent.

Grow a full brain, then make the calls. Critics of Transgenderism don't talk shit about labiaplasty, which speaks volumes for the opposition's hetero angle. Your wife can get a new downstairs, but Tim can't.

 

[IDL]

So you reject as absurd the notion of "cultural Marxism"? And the attempt, by those who use it, to connect Marx to a strategy of identity politics?

Marxism is just the root ideology. NeoMarxism, or Post-Modernism, of whatever one may call it, is a reformulated ideology that came out of the Frankfurt School after Marx was already dead. This new breed, is what is being pushed today and is what is underpinning a lot of the LGBT politics and ideologies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School
https://archive.is/YzkIS

 

[sangreporsangre]

If it was a direct reply to OP I would have put a reply box, calm down

You're not the only one taking positions here. It's my reply to 'natural state' arguments throughout this thread and the bulk WR when it comes to bashing that stuff. If biological alteration is so sacred to neo-cons, tell them they can't cut their hair or nails.

As for tacking your OP's early transition arguments to my post, fuck that, I see what you're doing. Cognitive development science is a real field, and it continues to define our laws. It's the reason consent laws protect post-pubescent 14 year olds from making sexual judgements themselves, and I don't see the argument change for hormone therapy. When an individual posseses "adult"/appropriately developed cognition biologically, they are legally allowed to make adult decisions. Drinking ages, driving ages vary, but it's safe to say the ages you're talking about aren't fully formed for those modifications, and parents shouldn't provide that individual's consent.

Grow a full brain, then make the calls. Critics of Transgenderism don't talk shit about labiaplasty, which speaks volumes for the opposition's hetero angle. Your wife can get a new downstairs, but Tim can't.

So uh, you're comparing clipping your nails to a 15 year old girl getting a double mastectomy? I'm just trying to understand your position here. You're arguing against "bulk WR" when this thread is specifically about the push to transition children using chemicals and surgery. Children as young as 10 or 11 can be put on Lupron to suppress their puberty, hell in some states and provinces that same kid could have sex reassignment surgery with their parents consent - so are you saying that you don't agree with this practice, should these kids "grow a full brain" as you say before being subjected to drastic medical procedures? Because if that's what you believe, I gotta say I find it weird that you're more outraged that some guys on the subforum of a karate message board don't agree with transgenderism in general than the fact that children are being experimented on. Should we as a society just ignore this growing trend of children being chemically and surgically altered and focus our energies on denouncing the ripskaters of the world? Or is there something else that you would like to see done? Help me out here.

edit: reading back through this thread a bit I really don't see a lot of posters condemning sex reassignment surgery for adults, or making "natural state" arguments like you said. I don't doubt that some of the posters itt hold views like that and have voiced them in other threads, of course. But the bulk of this thread is me spamming information on this disturbing practice of "affirmation therapy" and the resulting chemical and surgical treatments, and posters reacting specifically to that. I guess I'm just trying to understand the mindset of someone who reads all that stuff and the only thing that compels them to post is opinions they've read in other threads.

 

[Deleted member 491001]

The loony left had a field day the last 8 years.

It would be nice if the West could regain some of the common sense that we lost since all this crap go pushed.

All this stuff happened so fast.

I mean if someone told me we would see Bruce Jenner get female of the year, our president encouraging it and telling Bruce Jenner how brave he was, and a kid named Jazz showing us on tv how to make yourself into a girl, I would not have believed it.

And Bruce Jenner being awarded "woman of the year" NOT being seen as the affront to women worldwide that it was!

 

[cabal]

And Bruce Jenner being awarded "woman of the year" NOT being seen as the affront to women worldwide that it was!

Woman of the century was not available.

 

[Toastytoy]

Trans people need mental health care.

Say that around most leftists and they'll bite your head off, but transgender folks, by definition, suffer from Gender Identity Disorder. This disorder is often coupled with Major Depression. Trans folks are no less likely to commit self-harm or suicide during or even after full transition. It's not an issue that can be fixed with hormones and surgeries. Trans people are suffering from mental illness, and most trans people I've met absolutely hate it. They're sick, they know they're sick, and they're surrounded by leftists with "savior" complexes that want to validate what they know to be sick delusions.

Some transition. Some seek therapy. But I've never met a trans person who didn't know it wasn't healthy. The transition process caters to delusions brought on by illness. It's like handing someone with strong suicidal ideation a fucking razor blade. And the far left is pushing it because identity politics are all they have to hang their hats on. It's dangerous.

wow that is a surprising post i thought you were a big liberal feminist.

 

[sangreporsangre]

wow that is a surprising post i thought you were a big liberal feminist.

I think as time passes you're gonna see more and more feminists pushing back against the trans agenda. Not saying that's the best way to describe that poster's position - not to speak for him, but if I understand correctly he's a big supporter of trans rights, he just doesn't agree with life-altering procedures being pushed on children like how we are currently seeing. But imo we will see a backlash against the trans lobby from more feminists eventually.....I mean there already is plenty of criticism but I think it will grow as the insanity continues to expand.

 

[Lex Bigelow]

I may be transphobic. I see these men in dresses with pretty hair and makeup and it gives me the Willies. I won't act as though its normal. Won't call anyone names but I won't embrace it.