Trans Pacific Partnership - continuing the conservative assault on working people

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Aegon Spengler, Jun 25, 2015.

  1. IGIT

    IGIT Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    6,312
    Likes Received:
    2,110
    hi Trotsky,

    i supported NAFTA when Clinton signed on the dotted line, and i've supported it ever since. its resulted in a net trade surplus for the US, and on a personal note, it probably helped pay for me and my brother's tuition (my father was a chemical engineer and a chunk of his work related to products in the auto supply line).

    regarding the bolded, i think you are 100% correct.

    Mr. Trump is against the TPP, so his supporters are against it - though they'd be hard pressed to tell you what's in the agreement.

    some folks (not Anuung or Viva. i think they're wrong, but i think they're also debating in good faith) reflexively were against it because Mr. Sanders was against it.

    i still remember arguments where folks said the TPP would allow US factories to outsource work to China. lol.

    still more, there is another group of individuals against the TPP because it had Hillary Clinton's fingerprints all over it. Mrs. Clinton ended up reversing herself on this one - but i had faith that she'd return to the bargaining table once she gained the White House.

    alas...

    - IGIT
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  2. IGIT

    IGIT Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    6,312
    Likes Received:
    2,110
    hiya Whippy,

    currency manipulation?

    i knew it. you have no idea what you're talking about.

    i gotta go, Whippy. have a good one.

    - IGIT
     
    HomerThompson and SaiWa like this.
  3. Trotsky

    Trotsky Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card Yellow Card Banned

    Joined:
    May 20, 2016
    Messages:
    9,533
    Likes Received:
    20,518
    <DisgustingHHH>
     
  4. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2010
    Messages:
    41,897
    Likes Received:
    26,183
    Location:
    Sonora, Mexico.
    Most of these countries have free floating currencies, so how exactly are they "manipulating their currency" outside of having a central bank?
     
  5. I heart Pho

    I heart Pho Wood Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2013
    Messages:
    19,197
    Likes Received:
    17,286
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    trade deals are never gonna be equal, especially when it comes to labor. Companies will always use cheap labor if they can.

    When it comes to raw materials and commodities, then we can trade a little more fairly, but still it wont be completely equal, since one country has something that the other country wants.

    Its a tough one. I believe in free trade with minimal regulations. Let the consumer decide the fate of the companies. If its a shit product, no matter how low the price is, people wont buy it. Adding tariffs and taxes to imports seems artificial.

    Let Pepsi buy their aluminum from Canada. Why should anyone but their BOD and shareholders be told how to run their company?
     
  6. Whippy McGee

    Whippy McGee Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2014
    Messages:
    3,683
    Likes Received:
    10,264
    I knew you had no refutation.... move along... and have a good one.
     
  7. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2010
    Messages:
    41,897
    Likes Received:
    26,183
    Location:
    Sonora, Mexico.
    So which country of the TPP is using currency manipulation and how?
     
    SaiWa likes this.
  8. Anung Un Rama

    Anung Un Rama The Right Hand of Doom Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2009
    Messages:
    61,610
    Likes Received:
    45,133
    Location:
    22 Acacia Avenue
    Good Afternoon IGIT,

    Its nice to have you back. The WR could benefit greatly from your less ideology driven povs and conversational tone/style.

    Tbc, that query to @Rod1 regarding logistics costs and regulations was out of curiosity and not meant to be argumentative.
    I didn't expect for my mind to be changed, only to learn something. Thank you for the links, I haven't opened them yet. I'll need more focus to tackle what is presumably a daunting task than I'm able to muster at the moment.

    Now, if you'll recall from our conversations, my opposition to the TPP was never about engaging or disengaging with the rest of the world. I'm not anti-trade (never was) and I've never suggested the world would stop spinning without the US driving an agenda.

    I'm glad you brought up China's deals. If you recall one of the two reasons for the TPP was supposed to be so critical was to marginalize China (the other was that it was going to be so amazing for America's economy, even though the most optimistic forecasts didn't support such hyperbole). Meanwhile, China is conducting their own trade deals (they were working on their own TPP prior to the US opting out). The TPP wouldn't have prevented this.

    I think this deal makes more sense for the current TPP countries without America.

    Yours always,

    Anung with 1 u.
     
    HomerThompson likes this.
  9. Anung Un Rama

    Anung Un Rama The Right Hand of Doom Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2009
    Messages:
    61,610
    Likes Received:
    45,133
    Location:
    22 Acacia Avenue
    IGGY,

    Good post. My opposition to TPP was independent of Bernie's. We just happen to share the same values on most things.

    Best,
    AUR
     
    HomerThompson and IGIT like this.
  10. IGIT

    IGIT Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    6,312
    Likes Received:
    2,110
    ahoy Rod1,

    he wanted to say, "China", googled just to make sure...and is now probably thinking something along the lines of "oops".

    - IGIT
     
    SaiWa and Rod1 like this.
  11. SaiWa

    SaiWa Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    3,194
    Likes Received:
    2,987
    currency manipulation means China. You had no idea China wasn't involved in TPP???..

    HAHAHA!! you fuckin' tard...
     
  12. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2010
    Messages:
    41,897
    Likes Received:
    26,183
    Location:
    Sonora, Mexico.
    I went through all the currencies of TPP signataries and i found that Vietnamese Dong is not currently floating.

    I guess Trump is still afraid of going into war with Vietnam after so many decades.
     
    SaiWa, IGIT and HomerThompson like this.
  13. IGIT

    IGIT Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    6,312
    Likes Received:
    2,110
    hi there SaiWa,

    lol.

    i'd have put it differently, but yes.

    the thing is, Whippy isn't an outlier, and that's a bummer. he can be against the TPP (i'd think he'd be wrong, but that's besides the point); the problem here is more elemental - he doesn't know what it is - but he's dead set against it (its so many pages!!!).

    that's sad. its also sort of funny since this is the War Room. but mostly, i find that kind of steadfast ignorance alarming.

    its like, you know...why be that way?

    - IGIT
     
    SaiWa and HomerThompson like this.
  14. SaiWa

    SaiWa Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    3,194
    Likes Received:
    2,987
    I concur. it is sad because there are many of them out there.

    I believe one of the main reasons for TPP was to created a trading alliance that would decrease each nation's overall reliance on China for trading. But hey people like @Whippy McGee don't know or care to know and just reply "down with currency manipulation!!!".

    I like your style homey. keep it up!
     
    IGIT likes this.
  15. IGIT

    IGIT Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    6,312
    Likes Received:
    2,110
    ahoy Mr. SaiWa,

    ayup. for every Whippy McGee here, there are several million of them out there. a harrowing reality.

    i saw the TPP as something that would grease the wheels of trade, incrementally - and i saw it as the US using soft power geopolitically against China's ascent. that's it. nothing sinister.


    *high fives*


    - IGIT
     
    SaiWa likes this.
  16. Anung Un Rama

    Anung Un Rama The Right Hand of Doom Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2009
    Messages:
    61,610
    Likes Received:
    45,133
    Location:
    22 Acacia Avenue
    China may have made the biggest waves, but they don't own the practice of currency manipulation. Japan, for instance, is one of the bigger culprits.
     
  17. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2010
    Messages:
    41,897
    Likes Received:
    26,183
    Location:
    Sonora, Mexico.
    FTFY
     
    Anung Un Rama likes this.
  18. SaiWa

    SaiWa Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2011
    Messages:
    3,194
    Likes Received:
    2,987
    @Rod1. you must embolden the fix just in case Anung doesn't see it...

    Anyway none of the current TPP members do it at the moment...
     
  19. Anung Un Rama

    Anung Un Rama The Right Hand of Doom Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2009
    Messages:
    61,610
    Likes Received:
    45,133
    Location:
    22 Acacia Avenue
    I saw it...

    And sure none are doing it NOW. There is nothing in place to prevent current or future trading partners from starting back up.
    The only reason China stopped was because they had to stop the bleeding from all the private investment outside of China. There is no mechanism to prevent them from doing it again and there was no mechanism built into the TPP. Its a legit concern.
     
  20. Rod1

    Rod1 Titanium Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2010
    Messages:
    41,897
    Likes Received:
    26,183
    Location:
    Sonora, Mexico.
    I think their citizens not wanting to lose purchasing power tends to be reason enough, this of course applies mainly to democracies (the vast majority of TPP countries). But even non-democracies dont like the increased social unrest when the purchasing power of their populace goes down the drain.
     
    Anung Un Rama likes this.

Share This Page