Train with slams

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by dmwalking, Sep 11, 2017.

  1. dmwalking Sapateiro Belt

    dmwalking
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    Ok, so this may be semi stupid, but I'm being pretty sincere about this.

    If you're training for MMA or to have competent self defense, you should train with slams. I know it sounds crazy, but you can "pull slams" the same way you pull punches in boxing. In my limited opinion, I know that BJJ is super cool for little guys to beat big guys. But let's be honest. If mighty mouse put me in a triangle, I'm going to powerbomb his ass through a sidewalk over and over until he lets go or dies. I'm exaggerating, but you get my point, I hope. Bigger opponents have the capacity to do major bodily harm with a solid slam. If you don't know how to deal with it, you're screwed.

    So all I'm saying is, maybe you should consider your strategy.
     
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  2. Dirty Holt Brown Belt

    Dirty Holt
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    Lots of gyms train with slams. You just stop once you have the guy up.
     
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  3. BADodd06 Yellow Belt

    BADodd06
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    When I was getting ready for my F2WPro match I told my training partners while rolling to pick me up like they were going to slam me (but not actually slam) if at any time I was in a position to do so so that I would learn and correct. You can train slams without actually slamming.
    Adding a full slam in training is too dangerous and damaging to be beneficial and will likely just get you repeatedly concussed and/or injured to where you can't even train further. Be smart.
     
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  4. dmwalking Sapateiro Belt

    dmwalking
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    How about from triangle? Or bottom armbar? I feel like a lot of BJJ players are unaware of the dangers of these moves in a self defense setting. Like, you could get powerbombed. Or from armbar you could get stomped out.

    I'm just shooting from the hip because I was mentally revising my game. And I realized how much of my game has adapted to real life scenarios. I've almost been slammed from bottom armbar, for example. I've seen dudes get slammed on concrete and go lights out. I've seen dudes try to "play guard" and get stomped out. So my game is mostly top game, sweeps, and variations on the technical stand up.

    But I also have a fun sport jiu jitsu style too. Fun for me at least. I have a penchant for funky subs and sweeps. But for self defense I'm all business.

    Don't mind me. I'm being manic.
     
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  5. dmwalking Sapateiro Belt

    dmwalking
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    100% this. This is the best way. It's like exposing an error in your game without risking injury. That's how I believe it should be safely done.
     
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  6. lechien Gold Belt

    lechien
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    That is already in the judo rules.

    If you lift your opponent in their own guard, it is an automatic restart as it could considered as a slam or something like that.
     
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  7. dmwalking Sapateiro Belt

    dmwalking
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    I am a bjj boy from the no slams world. LOL. I don't know much about judo other than the fact that I sprained my knee and was out for a month after a bad fall after my 3rd class. LOL. I have crazy respect for judo boys. That's a tough ass sport. I'm too old and anti injury for that game.
     
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  8. Uchi Mata Gold Belt

    Uchi Mata
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    You're not wrong, but the logical conclusion of what you're suggesting is that you should just train MMA. Because if slams are a thing that can happen on the street, what about punches and kicks? And isn't starting from the knees pretty artificial if we're really training to fight? Shouldn't you be starting from the feet with strikes if you really want to be realistic?

    You can always make training more realistic, the question is at what cost to your ability to train safely. I think that as people get better things like slams get pretty easy to deal with without actually having to practice them that much, and for beginners having them legal is probably going to get a lot more people hurt than it would be worthwhile for whatever additional realism you gain.

    BJJ gives you more tools than the average person to deal with an opponent in any context, including those who are a lot bigger than you, but it's not a complete system the way the vast majority train it. If it was, it would just be MMA, but most people training BJJ don't want to get punched in the face a few times a week (which I don't blame them for. I do it, and at times it really, really sucks). It's okay to circumscribe training for safety's sake, that's essentially what all combat sports do with their rules and they still tend to produce much better fighters than 'no rules' sorts of environments.
     
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  9. dmwalking Sapateiro Belt

    dmwalking
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    Sorry if I'm being dismissive, but I stopped right here. After re-reading my first sentence after my disclaimer, I clearly stated that you should train for slams IF you're training for MMA or self defense. I'm pretty sure the logical conclusion is that you should train for slams IF you're training for MMA or self defense. If not, do whatever you want man. Train inverted 24/7 and berimbolo your wife if you feel like it. LOL.
     
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  10. dmwalking Sapateiro Belt

    dmwalking
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    BTW, Uchi, I love you. You're my fave poster on sherdog....for whatever that's worth. Please don't judo toss me onto my knee.
     
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  11. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    If you are getting slammed with a triangle, your doing something wrong. You should not by any means allow your opponent to lift you up.

    I like judo rules regarding this subject, if the person lifts you up higher than his waist, it's done.
     
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  12. dmwalking Sapateiro Belt

    dmwalking
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    Shouts out to Ricardo Arona.
     
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  13. BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

    BJJ_Rage
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    Bet he isn't doing a triangle without hooking a leg/arm no more.
     
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  14. Uchi Mata Gold Belt

    Uchi Mata
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    You shouldn't have stopped. You didn't say 'training MMA', you said 'training for MMA'. Those are two different things. I'm saying that if you're training in an MMA environment where people are getting hit and kicked then yes, it makes sense to include slams. Sure, why not. You've already accepted a higher risk tolerance to get more realistic training, so there you go. However, if you're training in a BJJ context, even if you're training for MMA, I don't see the need for slams. The reason you train each discipline separately is to get good at those individual disciplines, slams don't really help you get better at BJJ. Perhaps it's a distinction without a difference, but since I have trained a ton of BJJ for its own sake, as well as BJJ for MMA and just straight MMA, I read it that way. They are all different things.
     
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  15. lechien Gold Belt

    lechien
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    Fair enough.

    I think jumping guard should ban for all belt. Pulling guard is OK.

    Hugging someone like a koala is no good.

    Also letting someone lift you in the air while retaining closed guard or some sub attempts is no good. It just makes me cringe.
     
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  16. dmwalking Sapateiro Belt

    dmwalking
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    I'm not sure I understand. What's the difference between training for MMA and training MMA?
     
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  17. mon Purple Belt

    mon
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    Arona was slammed because he didn't wrap a leg.
     
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  18. Thrawn33 JUST BLEED Belt

    Thrawn33
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    Daki Age....

    Used to be an automatic ippon, ehen you got him above the waist, then they just made it matte, from what I hear because after hearing "ippon" ukes were getting dropped.

    Don't recall that ever being changed back.
     
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  19. Balto Silver Belt

    Balto
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    I would be in favor of stopping the match for a lift in the air. That's a pretty safe and reasonable way to deal with it.

    Actually allowing slamming is crazy. I can't believe some promotions even allow it for grappling. It's more dangerous than any strike.

    I coached guys in a couple events where slamming was allowed. In one match, my guy did get slammed a few times when he went for a triangle. On a personal level, that hit the switch for me. It was way more like an MMA fight from then on. I told my guy don't let go of any sub you get until the ref jumps in there to pull you off. If we're treating the slams like a cage fight, we should treat the subs in the same manner. Throw with the intention to put the guy in the hospital and don't stop until the ref jumps in there.

    The way a slam works is either a KO via blunt trauma to the back of the skull (illegal in most striking sports anyway) or messing up the cervical vertebrae. Both are pretty damaging long term. That's a totally different level of danger than any regular submission.
     
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  20. SummerStriker Black Belt

    SummerStriker
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    Normally, people tap out when you lift them. You'd be nuts to start the pissing contest while you're in the air.
     
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