Toronto Council proposes ban on handguns

redwire said:
First, the 1/2 of the guns used in crime number is BS. The following is from a well-known Canadian gun site:

- In 2014, the RCMP managed to trace only 29% of the guns used in crime. Others had the serial number filed-off or were untraceable
- Out of the 29% of the guns that were traced, 50% of them were domestically sourced.
- Out of the 29% of the guns that were traced, 48% were deemed to be smuggled from the US. And 82% of those smuggled guns were handguns.
- In reality, only 14.5% of guns used in crime were domestically sourced (29% x 50% =14.5%)
​
And:
Also don't forget that the domestically traceable guns that WERE 'used in crime' could include every instance of administrative crime and stuff like charges laid for unsafe storage etc. Of course those would all be traceable and all domestic...​

Also, from: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/mayor-triggers-gun-club-anger/article17987153/

Tony Bernardo, executive director of the Canadian Institute for Legislative Action - an anti-gun-control group - said numbers he obtained through a freedom-of-information request showed just 5.5 per cent of guns seized by a Toronto Police anti-gang task force could be proven to come from domestic sources, with 60 per cent from the United States and the rest unknown.

"What you know is 5.5 per cent," Mr. Bernardo said. "The rest is junk science."​
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Do you not see the massive, glaring problem with the "data" provided in the first set of bulletpoints?
 
Wet Blanket said:
Well handguns are only made for shooting humans. They can so be hidden on your persons much easier than a rifle.
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You might actually be retarded.
 
redwire said:
- In 2014, the RCMP managed to trace only 29% of the guns used in crime. Others had the serial number filed-off or were untraceable
- Out of the 29% of the guns that were traced, 50% of them were domestically sourced.
- Out of the 29% of the guns that were traced, 48% were deemed to be smuggled from the US. And 82% of those smuggled guns were handguns.
- In reality, only 14.5% of guns used in crime were domestically sourced (29% x 50% =14.5%)
Click to expand...


PIkprkZ.gif
 
Devout Pessimist said:
The majority of people who own handguns in Canada are criminals. I doubt they are going to take gun laws seriously. Most people who legally own guns have long guns and live in rural areas.
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I don't know how the actual numbers compare, but I think you'd be surprised at the number of legal restricted firearms owners there are in Canada. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was actually greater than the number of gangbangers that are packing.

Either way, that kind of reasoning doesn't sit well with me because it can be slanted to imply there aren't many legal owners who enjoy target practice as a hobby, and so banning handguns isn't truly a massive infringement on people's lives.

You are right that the criminals with handguns aren't going to heed stricter regulations, they're already breaking what laws are in place, but the emphasis of that point instead imo should be that there are in fact many people who do follow the laws and enjoy owning and shooting restricted firearms, and any changes to the laws only impacts them.

For example, as it stands right now, restricted owners can transport their restricteds directly to a range, gun store, gun smith, etc and back home for the legal purpose of target shooting, appraisal, repairs, etc. They don't have to acquire an Authorization to Transport (ATT) prior to that right now. The previous government amended the act to allow for long standing ATTs to essentially be in effect for the entire time a person owns their guns. They would need to acquire an ATT if say, they were travelling to a friends out of province to stay the weekend and they were going to shoot at a range while there. This allows the RCMP to know that those restricted firearms are in fact being stored somewhere other than their registered address, basically just changing that address for the weekend.

The incoming bill is rolling back those long standing ATTs to include only the authorization to a range and back. So, now, when a person gets a live round jammed in their chamber say, instead of being able to go straight to a gun smith to have it safely removed, they have to apply for an ATT to go to the smith and maybe have to store this firearm at home while waiting. The CFO is notoriously difficult to get a hold of, and is closed on weekends.
I really don't know what they're expecting removing the current conditions, like, someone who wants to sell their gun to a gun store calls in ahead of time, "Yeah I'm heading over to store X for an appraisal on my Glock 17, and I thought I'd stop by the corner store first for a quick robbery, that cool?"
This roll back is only going to make current owners potentially less safe overall and cause an increase in bureaucracy and red tape for legal owners while gangs and thugs aren't going to change their practice at all. It's a mismanagement of LEA resources as it increases the time and effort spent on policing already law abiding people rather than focusing on organized crime and gangs.
 
Wet Blanket said:
I was just trying to think up an example.

Obviously there will always be crime but I think we need to really look at causes a little harder.
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I can disagree with you on gun control, but agree with you here that there needs to be more look at culture and root causes of high crime areas (such as lower employment opportunities) rather than just simply locking up after violent crime is committed (which should still be strict to get the actual offenders off the streets and away from others to both influence and repeat)
 
Wet Blanket said:
I've lived in Northern Ontario as well and understand that people like to hunt. I've come home to meet a bear face to face in my yard. Doesn't mean I need a semi auto pistol.

And FYI we have coyotes here in Toronto as well.
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Tell the bear story please.

Also, you said single shot everything, not just pistols. You have much more confidence in your shooting than I do. I would never feel comfortable with a single shot. I am not saying that you don't have coyotes in Toronto, but I have been going to the city multiple times per year for the last 20+ years and I have never seen a coyote in the city. What I was referring to was a daily occurrence.

For the record, I hate the idea of people in the city having guns. I think armed gang bangers should be shot on site.


Also, for someone who's lived in Northern Ontario, you should know how much the people there hate Toronto laws.
 
Wet Blanket said:
No reason for civilians to own handguns.
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All sorts of reasons . . .

Personal protection
Collector
Participant in shooting competitions
Some can be used for hunting
Just because . . .
 
Dolomite said:
Some people have an image in their mind that concealed carry laws work to reduce violent crime by creating piles of dead bad guys. It's really not like that at all.
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Really? Who are these people? I'd say it's more along the lines of thinking if a criminal thinks a potential victim might be armed they would be more likely to move on . . . and not try to harm/rob, or whatever the potential victim.
 
Badger67 said:
Most americano guns smuggled into canada occur at the niagara border. Both sides aint doing their job here.
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Few years back i went down to OK for a MT fight and on the way back we passed by Walmart. Was interesting to see they sold guns there

Anyways, on the ride back, the border guards (cdn) just asked for our passports and didn't check the bus. All good. I could've bought guns at Walmart (if i had a license) and stored them onboard and I'd have them home sweet home a few hours later.
 
bufetadanacara said:
Also, you said single shot everything, not just pistols. You have much more confidence in your shooting than I do. I would never feel comfortable with a single shot. I am not saying that you don't have coyotes in Toronto, but I have been going to the city multiple times per year for the last 20+ years and I have never seen a coyote in the city. What I was referring to was a daily occurence .
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Coyotes are surprisingly on the rise in the gta and golden horse shoe. Mostly harmless unless you are a small dog or cat.

I go for hikes and see them often in st kitts and they ttpically take off quickly.

I also agree single shots would not be great if you had to fend off an angry animal or human. You miss and reload and bam its on you.
 
j123 said:
Few years back i went down to OK for a MT fight and on the way back we passed by Walmart. Was interesting to see they sold guns there

Anyways, on the ride back, the border guards (cdn) just asked for our passports and didn't check the bus. All good. I could've bought guns at Walmart (if i had a license) and stored them onboard and I'd have them home sweet home a few hours later.
Click to expand...

Same thing i noticed when i went to school in michigan. Ive only been searched once at the border in my trunk otherwise they just harass me with dumb questions.

Go to wal mart buy a 24 and a shotty and regulate regent park son.
 
Badger67 said:
Same thing i noticed when i went to school in michigan. Ive only been searched once at the border in my trunk otherwise they just harass me with dumb questions.

Go to wal mart buy a 24 and a shotty and regulate regent park son.
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Dumb questions indeed: Looks at my passport and asks me what color my eyes are
 
j123 said:
Dumb questions indeed: Looks at my passport and asks me what color my eyes are
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"Are you sure thats your name and address?"
"Yes"
"Are you sure,?
"Yes"
"How long?"
"Whole life for my name and 2 years that location"
"So its not your whole life?"
"...wut"
 
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