To what extent did Ken Shamrock influence the development of 10th planet JiuJitsu?

[TheMaster]

I remember Eddie Bravo was a fan of Ken in the early days but wrote piece about how leg locks were not good and leave you open to getting countered.
Then Ken answered him and showed him a bunch of leg locks and Bravo became big into them after that. Now apparantly 10th planet emphasize foot locks.
So to what extent did Ken influence the development of Bravo and 10th planet jiujitsu?

I remember it seems a bit like the unacknowledged catch influence on Gracie JJ due to Maeda's experience fighting catch guys.

 

[Liquid Smoke]

You answered your own question, he taught 'em how to leglock.

 

[TheMaster]

No-gi, aggressive looking to finish, leglock specialists.
10th Planet Catch-Jitsu?

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Or may be 10th planet jumped on the whole leg lock thing that took over the past years in no gi...

10th planet guys have the Bjj meta concerning leg locks...

 

[yetanother]

Or may be 10th planet jumped on the whole leg lock thing that took over the past years in no gi...

Didn't they jump onto leg locks seeing the DDS success and that their leg locks where vastly superior to the existing 10th planet stuff (which frankly sucks)

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Didn't they jump onto leg locks seeing the DDS success and that their leg locks where vastly superior to the existing 10th planet stuff (which frankly sucks)

Yeah probably... they rode the wave...

 

[thewhiterooster]

the 10th planet system is night and day from the catch wrestling toe, ankle and foot locks. basically an uneducated post. no offense.

 

[TheMaster]

the 10th planet system is night and day from the catch wrestling toe, ankle and foot locks. basically an uneducated post. no offense.

Sorry, but sounds like you are trying to distance yourself from something here.
There may indeed be many variations on an armlock or footlock, but the basic principle is always the same- to hyperextend or twist the joint against its natural way of motion.
Anyway this is not about catch per say, but especially if Ken taught and actually convinced Bravo of the utility of leglocks in the beginning, it is hardly going to be 'night and day difference'. The influence is cleary there.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Sorry, but sounds like you are trying to distance yourself from something here.
There may indeed be many variations on an armlock or footlock, but the basic principle is always the same- to hyperextend or twist the joint against its natural way of motion.
Anyway this is not about catch per say, but especially if Ken taught and actually convinced Bravo of the utility of leglocks in the beginning, it is hardly going to be 'night and day difference'. The influence is cleary there.

No is not, leglocks are not about the lock it self, what makes the difference is the entries... the 10th planet approach to leglocks is night and day from the catch approach... just cause he told him, dude leglocks work, you think bravo said, shit.im jumping on this shit...

 

[TheMaster]

Yes obviously the entries and positions and control etc are what distinguishes approaches. But Ken did more than just tell him "btw, leg locks work". Ken is an acknowledged master of this area who has also used them in mma, which Bravo has not.
So the question is, aside from convincing him to use them and explaining them and that they work in both sub grappling and mma, how much did he actually teach Bravo and how much did Bravo study Kens and other catch methods since up til that point he was not using them. However way you look at it Kens contribution would be significant.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Yes obviously the entries and positions and control etc are what distinguishes approaches. But Ken did more than just tell him "btw, leg locks work". Ken is an acknowledged master of this area who has also used them in mma, which Bravo has not.
So the question is, aside from convincing him to use them and explaining them and that they work in both sub grappling and mma, how much did he actually teach Bravo and how much did Bravo study Kens and other catch methods since up til that point he was not using them. However way you look at it Kens contribution would be significant.

Do you see any similarity between kens approach and 10th planet approach?, I see none. Zero. Again, 10th planet has a Bjj meta leglocks game, not a catch. Most of their guys sit on their asses and play footsies, that is far far far away from kens approach to leglocks or grappling in general.

 

[nefti]

Eddie and joe used to make fun of catch and had a online "beef" with josh barnett . Where did you get the idea that ken taught eddie leg locks?

 

[TrevorRoss]

Eddie and joe used to make fun of catch and had a online "beef" with josh barnett . Where did you get the idea that ken taught eddie leg locks?

That’s typical “we’re doing the same thing, but my thing is better than your thing”

BJJ was designed for frail wimps.
Catch is more for powerful athletic types.

 

[TheGZA]

Do you see any similarity between kens approach and 10th planet approach?

Looks the same to me:

 

[lechien]

Lol.
10th is not known for it leg lock system.

It is after the DDS smashes everyone that 10th and eb acknowledge the need for a leg system.

But I am not surprised if EB is now saying that ken was teaching him leg locks 20 years ago.

 

[nefti]

That’s typical “we’re doing the same thing, but my thing is better than your thing”

BJJ was designed for frail wimps.
Catch is more for powerful athletic types.

?????

 

[yetanother]

That’s typical “we’re doing the same thing, but my thing is better than your thing”

BJJ was designed for frail wimps.
Catch is more for powerful athletic types.

Top BJJers are way more athletic than fat catch wrestlers.

 

[Dirty Holt]

Didn't they jump onto leg locks seeing the DDS success and that their leg locks where vastly superior to the existing 10th planet stuff (which frankly sucks)

What about 10th planet sucks specifically? Curious because I trained with these guys for at leas a year and found it to be no different than the fundamentals and basics I did for years with Checkmat in SoCal. I got my blackbelt from Checkmat and the only real difference between the two was that 10p addressed the leg lock system of Tonnen and Cummings from a defensive and offensive standpoint for competition. Checkmat addressed the meta scoring of IBJJF more. 10p had more college wrestlers. Thats about the only difference. The lighter guys at 10p were tougher. The upperweights of Checkmat were tougher.

 

[TheMaster]

Do you see any similarity between kens approach and 10th planet approach?, I see none. Zero. Again, 10th planet has a Bjj meta leglocks game, not a catch. Most of their guys sit on their asses and play footsies, that is far far far away from kens approach to leglocks or grappling in general.

Well since you are denying any connection which there obviously is, maybe personality diferences play a part as well.
I guess Eddie is just a much more chilled out dude in general with that Hare krishna/ yoga/ stoner vibe about him.
I never saw Ken roll with a girl like ever, so props to Eddie for his progressiveness.





Ken has that intensity about him. Less 'yoga' and more just vicious so maybe that explains some of the difference in approach.

 

[nefti]

What about 10th planet sucks specifically? Curious because I trained with these guys for at leas a year and found it to be no different than the fundamentals and basics I did for years with Checkmat in SoCal. I got my blackbelt from Checkmat and the only real difference between the two was that 10p addressed the leg lock system of Tonnen and Cummings from a defensive and offensive standpoint for competition. Checkmat addressed the meta scoring of IBJJF more. 10p had more college wrestlers. Thats about the only difference. The lighter guys at 10p were tougher. The upperweights of Checkmat were tougher.

Most people think that 10th planet is a bunch of eddie clones (mostly due to eddies promotion methods), they are not. From what i hear, most of eddies first black belts dont use much of eddies stuff.

I also heard that the satellite schools obsess over rubber guard/ect and try to copy eddies game to a t. Thus the epic fail.